UK Parliament / Open data

Local Government (Religious etc. Observances) Bill

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to my noble friend for his robust and totally convincing defence of a Bill that I had the honour to present to your Lordships’ House a couple of weeks ago. I am very grateful to all those who have taken part in this interesting and stimulating debate over the past hour. Second Reading came at a rather awkward time on a Friday two weeks ago. Most of your Lordships had been exhausted by the overseas aid Bill and, other than myself, there was only one Back-Bench speaker, namely the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. I thanked him then and I thank him again now.

In effect, we have had a Second Reading debate over the last hour and I make no complaint about that. Amendment 1, moved by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, would remove the first part of the Bill and its whole underlying purpose. The noble Earl is rather fortunate that he is in your Lordships’ House and not in another place. I speak as one who, in another place, was a chairman of committees for 15 years and had to decide on amendments with the advice of clerks. In another place, Amendment 1 would have been considered a wrecking amendment and would not have been allowed. But I am glad that it has been allowed and that noble Lords in all parts of the House have had the opportunity to put their points of view.

I do not want to repeat what has been said either by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, to whom I am very grateful, or my noble friend the Minister, Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon. I just want to underline the essential purpose of this Bill. It is a wholly permissive Bill. No one is obliged to do anything. If a group of councillors or members of a local authority wish to begin their proceedings with prayers—be they Christian or of any other faith—a moment of reflection, or a thought for the day as happens in the Scottish Parliament, and a majority shares that point of view, that is how the said meeting can begin. If a different point of view is taken, it does not happen. We have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and my noble friend Lady Eaton, that in the authorities on which they serve, prayers or a moment of silent reflection do not begin the day. However, heaving heard what my noble friend Lady Eaton said, clearly it would be a good thing if they did have a moment of silent reflection on her council. This is wholly permissive. It does not dictate anything to anyone.

I say to my noble friend Lord Avebury, for whom we all have great respect, that this is a gentle measure. It really is. He quoted at some length the aggrieved Muslim councillor on a Tory authority, although he named neither the councillor nor the authority. I do not criticise him for that and I do not doubt for a minute that every word of what he said was entirely true, but it certainly was not typical, as my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon made plain in his speech.

11.15 am

One Member of your Lordships’ House would have liked to be here today. My very dear friend, the noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen, is spending some of today, as she spends some of virtually every day, visiting the noble Baroness, Lady Rendell, who has been very ill and to whom I am sure that we all send our warmest regards, whether we can accompany them with prayers or not. The noble Baroness, Lady Massey, had hoped to be here but, as she cannot, she wrote to me. She asked me to say that, as noble Lords know, she is a committed humanist who has spoken of her disquiet about free schools and faith schools. She is of the view that the provisions in this Bill are not of the same order, and that the Bill is about adults making choices about whether or not they wish individually or collectively to spend a short period of contemplation before business. She said that there is no coercion in the Bill and that it applies to belief, such as humanism, as well as to faith. The Bill has her support.

I think that that is a very eloquent plea from a Member of your Lordships’ House who would not go along with many of us who are Christians, Muslims or members of other faiths. I hope that, in the light of what has been said over the last hour and bearing in mind that this is a wholly tolerant Bill which respects democracy, noble Lords who have tabled amendments will not press them to a Division. If they do, I urge your Lordships to vote not content.

I finish with a reference to the amendment which talks about special majorities. That would place the minority in the ascendancy. That, surely, is inimical to the sort of democracy that most of us hold dear. We in this House, appointed as we are, all have an enormous regard for democracy. We say time and time again that we believe in the supremacy of the elected House. If a Bill comes to your Lordships’ House from another place, we do not say, “Did it have a two-thirds majority?”. A majority of one is a majority. I hope that we will treat the authorities—the local, single-purpose and dual-purpose authorities covered by this Bill—around the country with the same degree of tolerance and respect that we treat the Members of another place, which we all acknowledge has supremacy.

I hope the amendment is withdrawn but, if it is not, your Lordships will demonstrate convincingly that they believe that this freedom of choice should be allowed to those who have been elected in whatever capacity to serve their fellow citizens.

About this proceeding contribution

Reference

760 cc854-5 

Session

2014-15

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber
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