I was coming to this. I have been asked a lot of questions and I intend to answer them. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, asked whether this would affect the UK’s contribution. It may be useful to point out that the UK is not alone in proposing this approach. Belgium and Ireland, among others, provide for the prospect of making a person stateless in circumstances analogous to what we are proposing. The noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, and the noble Lord, Lord Lester, asked about the JCHR. Last year, in S1 and others v the Secretary of State, SIAC rejected the idea that Articles 2 or 3 would be engaged extraterritorially. Even if Article 8 were engaged extraterritorially, the interference would be lawful if it was necessary and proportionate. The high threshold set out in Clause 64 means that interference would be proportionate so I regard this as a rather academic point. I hope my noble friend, who does not lack academic credentials, is prepared to accept this. This was decided in 1973. This was like the case of the people in east Africa, to which my noble friend referred.
The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, made a passionate speech on the evils of statelessness after the Second World War. The UN Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness was agreed in 1961. The view of the United Nations was that, in extreme circumstances, people could be left stateless, as the JCHR accepted. This proposal is compatible with that UN convention. My noble friend Lady Hamwee asked what would happen to people in the UK who were made destitute. The UK would continue to have human rights obligations towards those in the UK and could not allow them to become destitute as a result of its actions. She asked whether these individuals were exempt from leave under the immigration laws and what would happen to family members. Family members would still be able to apply for leave within the rules, including the statelessness provisions, and would not be subject to restrictions unless their conduct justified it. My noble friend Lord Paddick, in a brave and thoughtful speech, said that legal aid is allowed for the appeal process. My noble friend Lady Berridge asked whether other countries will render people stateless in the UK on a tit-for-tat basis. Other countries can already do this and those affected would be subject to our immigration rules for stateless people. This clause will not provoke extra cases because, as we have stated, it will be used only for a few extreme cases. In any event, we believe that many will go on to acquire another nationality.
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In answer to the comments made by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, about the statelessness provisions, the Government have never hesitated to make people stateless through the deprivation of nationality. They do that in situations such as fraudulent applications being made. In that case, the analogous situation of what happens to children would have been exactly the same under her Government as it would be under this one. Children are protected. In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, Amendment 56ZC provides for a duty to take into account the best interests of children. She extended it extraterritorially. Our writ does not extend extraterritorially. If children are abroad they are abroad and we cannot govern the grounds under which they are cared for. However, the amendment in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, to which I have put my name, provides for people in this country and it is unnecessary to repeat our responsibility in respect of children.
I turn to the matter of whether the powers should apply with an element of retrospection. I believe that those who have made the choice to naturalise and become British citizens should respect and adhere to the values and laws which they take an oath to maintain. It would be perverse if the Home Secretary was not to be able to consider the full circumstances of their conduct since taking that oath rather than consider only their actions following the coming into force of Clause 64. There can be no expectation that a naturalised person should retain their citizenship despite such abhorrent conduct, and that is not the effect of the existing powers to remove.
Amendment 57B, which provides for quarterly statistics, is adequately addressed by the government proposal for an independent review. It would not be desirable
for quarterly reports to be published, with no other context, in advance of the initial report from the independent review. The independent review will report on how often the power has been used as well as providing a commentary on how it has been applied. In addition, the Home Secretary already responds to requests for data on deprivation through parliamentary Questions, Freedom of Information requests and the like.
In conclusion—I think noble Lords will want to move to a conclusion on this matter—this power is very narrowly drawn and is aimed at addressing a real and current threat posed by a small number of individuals. I hope noble Lords realise that the Government are committed to taking proportionate action to protect the public and removing the privileges of British citizenship from those who abuse it. In light of those points, I hope noble Lords will support the government amendment and agree not to press the other amendments that we have discussed in this group.