My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply to this short debate and for the answers he has given to questions. I am grateful—and noble Lords will be grateful—for his acceptance that transparency and disclosure are a necessary part of the reform that we are engaged in; for his confirmation that he and the Government share the concerns that have been expressed in this debate; and, in particular, for his assurances, in so far as they are assurances, that
the response to the consultation can be expected shortly but that we will receive from the Pensions Minister Steve Webb on Thursday in the House of Commons an update on the Government’s response to the consultation.
I feel that we now have to wait until Thursday to see whether this response is adequate and, in terms of what it allows us to expect or anticipate, whether it puts a timeous set of potential actions in place that will meet the challenges of the continued rollout of auto-enrolment and the increasing numbers of people who are being engaged by default in individual pension schemes. I will come back to that in my peroration.
I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. First, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, for his engagement. I can confirm that there was some stimulus from the fact that he tabled Amendments 63 and 67. Of course, the fact that he did so first in your Lordships’ House does not detract from the fact that an almost identical amendment was tabled in the name of the Labour Party in the House of Commons by my honourable friend Gregg McClymont before Committee there. I make this point not to in any sense undermine our common interpretation of this problem or our substantially common approach, but to point out that but for the slight difference of wording between the amendment my honourable friend tabled in the Commons and the one we tabled in your Lordships’ House, our amendment would probably have been tabled about the same time as the noble Lord’s amendment. The question of timing does not detract from the fact that we have been engaged with this issue for some significant time.
I am very grateful to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester for two things: first, for his identifying that the approach of the Labour Front Bench and that of the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, are much more compatible than others who have commented on this appear to believe. These amendments proceed by way of regulation but the regulation is to define what subsequently should be disclosed. I point out to those who have contributed to this debate that we, too, are about disclosure with this amendment. We have an ambition to cap the charges on the administration of pension funds but this is not the vehicle for that policy. This is about disclosure. It is about defining what ought to be disclosed in a very precise fashion through a process of consultation and regulation, and then about disclosure for all the same reasons that the noble Lords, Lord Lawson and Lord German, the right reverend Prelate, my noble friend Lady Donaghy and indeed the Minister all seem to consistently agree with.
The second reason I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester is that he not only put his finger on the problem for the member, or potential member, of a pension scheme but explained more fully than I did—perhaps I should have done—why value for money is so important to our reforms. It is about confidence. If there is no confidence in the market, as the right reverend Prelate pointed out—and drew the Minister to agree—this whole package of reforms will fail. This will be half a reform, if there is no confidence in the private pensions industry. Our whole thrust is to address the issues that have been successively identified
by reports and analysis of the issue in a form that is designed to reform the law and to provide the confidence that will be necessary for this whole reform—which we support—to go forward.
My noble friend Lady Donaghy reminded us of the importance of trying to change the culture more broadly in the financial services industry if we are to instil the confidence in the people of this country in saving and, I suppose, the mature handling of their own resources. That is a challenge we face that goes beyond just pensions, but it is crucial to them and she is wise to remind us of that.
I thank the noble Lord, Lord German, for engaging with the debate and for encouraging the Minister to respond to some of the important questions that needed to be answered. I remind him that although regulation and a more straightforward form of disclosure are the difference between the way our Front Bench here and the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, have approached this issue, we are concerned about disclosure as well.
It comes down to this: the Minister, as his honourable friend the Pensions Minister, Steve Webb, did in the other place, rests his case on the statutory structure which is being created and a process of consultation with a promise of significant regulation following thereafter, which will be engaging and confidence building. His case depends on how his honourable friend the Pensions Minister responds to the consultation thus far, which is so important to that process. We will all listen very carefully to that statement.
I fear that there may be more in the Financial Times report than the Minister is in a position to reveal to your Lordships’ Committee today. If that proves to be correct, he will appreciate that it is almost certain that we will return to this issue on Report. Between now and then, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, will take up my offer to have discussions about where we agree and what is the best way for us to proceed on this issue. We share an analysis and a common concern, or remedy, about how to proceed.
However, in the mean time, I thank the Minister for his response and engagement with the debate and beg leave to withdraw my amendment.