My Lords, I start by declaring an interest. I have interests in shooting and I am a firearms and shotgun licence holder. I have also been a referee for others who are such licence holders.
After the tragedy of Dunblane, it was one of my party tricks to ask chief officers of police whom I ran into how we were getting on with the police national firearms computer, which was promised in the wake of that tragedy. It took a very long time for anything that even approached that to become a reality.
4 pm
I said on Second Reading that I supported the Government’s proposals to tighten things up with regard to firearms licences. The amendment, however, seems to rest on a premise that is at variance with my experience and that of others whom I know. I sought
information from the British Association of Shooting and Conservation. I am not a member of BASC, but every now and again, I attend the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Shooting and Conservation, for which BASC provides secretarial support. It has largely confirmed my belief.
I believe that the measures in proposed new Clause 28B, “Assessing public safety”, and subsection (1) in particular, are already being performed—those checks are already taking place. That is certainly my experience of what the police in more than one force are doing in response to an application. I believe that there is a new ACPO professional practice document for firearms licences due early in 2014. I have not seen it, but I understand that it will set out how that will be dealt with at database level on the police national computer, including local intelligence and the domestic violence unit. I understand that there is also new guidance from the Home Office, but I have not seen that either, but presumably it will tie in with what ACPO is doing. So I question whether the amendment is necessary.
On new subsection (2) and the question of,
“substantiated evidence of violent conduct”,
and so on, the chief officer of police must also always have final discretion on the matter, but that subsection appears to take that discretion away. That was also the view of BASC. In any event, presumption exists that someone such as Michael Atherton, who was known to be a heavy drinker and in a violent domestic situation, will be refused. Durham police knew that but failed to act. The amendment does not add anything and would do nothing to make that failure more or less likely. Perhaps the Minister has a different take on that.
On new subsection (3) and the question of the guidance of the Secretary of State, this may sound like semantics, but if it is guidance, adherence to it is presumably not mandatory. For it to be mandatory, there must be something more like a directive or regulation. If it is guidance or whatever, chief officers of police ought to adhere to it or be able to give pretty compelling evidence why they have departed from it. That should be on a case-by-case basis. The reason that I say that is that I am advised that settled law requires every such case to be considered on its merits.
With regard to the question of fees, I was not clear whether what is proposed is a flat rate, which is what we have at the moment, or whether there should be a variable rate depending on whether someone was what you might call a difficult customer and therefore needed more investigation. Perhaps that could be explained.
I do not really have a view on the actual level, other than that it should be proportionate and consonant with other licensing regimes. I suspect that in reality £50 looks a bit cheap. Those are my comments on the amendment.