My Lords, like many Members, I have the honour to have represented a shipyards constituency for over 25 years. I have seen this disease at relatively close quarters over that time.
There is one category of person that we have not yet mentioned in discussing these amendments. We have discussed people who perhaps washed clothes, but we have not discussed the children. When I was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Investment in Belfast 11 years ago, we set aside £180 million, if my memory serves me correctly. I saw a graph which showed that we had put money aside up to 2050 to take care of the victims that we anticipated would still be emerging because they were young children when the material was imported into their homes.
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I am glad that we have moved on to the point where this Bill has been introduced, but I want to ask the Minister a question in the context of these amendments before they are finally determined. The territorial extent
of the Bill is all of the United Kingdom. However, if my memory serves me correctly, the nature of the schemes available to people in Northern Ireland is somewhat different—I believe that they are additional schemes. I moved to another department shortly after that and I am not familiar with the current position, but can the Minister tell the Committee whether the schemes in Northern Ireland are additional and different and, if so, can he also tell us whether we will at least have equality with those schemes?
We had a concentration of the disease in the area that I was in. When Harland & Wolff was a nationalised company, the department took on its legacy responsibilities. It was privatised by the time I became involved but we were left with the legacies. To give your Lordships some sense of the situation, I recall being told by a neighbour who subsequently died of mesothelioma—and he was not the only one—that they used to play snowballs with the asbestos in the vessels. That is how ignorant people were of what they were confronted with.
I can see where the insurers are coming from. They may argue, “We insure people who pay us to insure them, and we don’t insure people who don’t pay us to insure them”. We understand that, but over the years dealing with this process has been like playing with a series of dominoes. First, you had to prove that X employer was responsible for mesothelioma. Then that wall was knocked down and you did not have to do that any more—you did not have to nail down a specific employer. The insurers had a point but that point has now been overruled. We have moved on and there have been court cases and so on.
However, a point is going to have to come when we get out in front of this matter and get to the end of it. I am not sure whether this is the right mechanism and I suppose that that is what Report stage will determine. All I can say is that I had a graph in my department—I do not know whether the Minister or the Government have one somewhere—that rolled out victims right up to 2050 and we put money aside for them. I do not know what has happened to that money. I do not know whether it is in the block grant or in AME or where it is, but I do remember making a statement to the Assembly at that time dealing with this matter.
We have a very high concentration of mesothelioma in Northern Ireland—maybe 40 or 50 cases a year. This disease is not confined to what are described as “working people”; it goes right across the board. If you were a senior manager, you walked through the workshop. If you were an inspector, you went into the vessel or a confined space. It did not matter whether you were working with asbestos every single day or whether you worked with it once or went through a space where the fibres were present. Some, although not all, people have a susceptibility and, once you have it, one fibre is enough to do the business. I can say that it is an awful death. I have seen two of my neighbours suffer from it and I have seen it at first-hand.
Therefore, I ask the Minister to clarify: first, whether the territorial extent of the Bill means that other schemes are available in Northern Ireland; and, secondly, whether there will be consistency in this matter. I also say to the Minister that, while I understand the point
about the insurers—and they have a fair point—at the end of the day we have been pushing and shoving this issue for years. Let us settle it; let us finish it; and let us do whatever we have to do. I urge that upon the Minister.