UK Parliament / Open data

Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill

Committee stage (First day). Clause 2, amendment 45, debated with further amendments and negatived on division (66 to 337). Amendment 10 negatived on division (68 to 529). Clause 2 agreed to on division (331 to 262). Clause 4, amendment 19 negatived on division (58 to 525). Clause 4 agreed to on division (330 to 55). New clause 6 negatived on division (262 to 336). Progress reported. Committee to sit again tomorrow.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

743 cc699-786 

Session

2023-24

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

Proxy voting

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill 2023-24
Thursday, 7 December 2023
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 743 c703 (Link to this contribution)

I remind Members that in Committee, Members should not address the Chair as Deputy Speaker. Pleas...

Chris Bryant | 743 c703 (Link to this contribution)

What about Dame Rosie?


Show all contributions (152)
Alison Thewliss | 743 c703 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 45, page 2, line 33, leave out “a safe” and insert “an unsafe”.

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 743 cc703-8 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 1, page 2, line 34, at ...

Alison Thewliss | 743 c708 (Link to this contribution)

The SNP has brought forward these amendments to this appalling Bill not because we really believe...

Desmond Swayne | 743 c708 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Chairman. The hon. Lady’s speech seems more appropriate for Second Rea...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 743 c708 (Link to this contribution)

It is actually amendments and clause stand part, so that gives a wider scope than perhaps the rig...

Alison Thewliss | 743 cc708-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad the right hon. Gentleman has had your advice, Dame Rosie, on the subject of the debate....

Michael Fabricant | 743 c709 (Link to this contribution)

On that point, will the hon. Lady give way?

Alison Thewliss | 743 c709 (Link to this contribution)

I will if the hon. Gentleman can tell me why the Government treat people so cruelly, I will.

Michael Fabricant | 743 c709 (Link to this contribution)

I have been listening with interest to the compassion that the hon. Lady is expressing, but could...

Alison Thewliss | 743 c709 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman should inform himself, because there is no such thing as an illegal asylum see...

Alison Thewliss | 743 c709 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman can sit down; he has made his point.

Fellow human beings, from Afghanist...

Desmond Swayne | 743 c709 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Dame Rosie. I do not want to try your patience, but clause 2 is about the sa...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 743 c710 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. Please can he leave it with me? It is ra...

Alison Thewliss | 743 c710 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would like to come along to listen to Olivia Ndoti and the women...

Tim Loughton | 743 c710 (Link to this contribution)

Amendment 45, as the hon. Lady has just said, would permanently designate Rwanda an unsafe countr...

Alison Thewliss | 743 c710 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that it is fundamentally unwise to recognise countries as safe in perpetuity, because t...

Alison Thewliss | 743 cc710-2 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to make some progress. The hon. Gentleman will be able to contribute later on.

I wis...

Robert Jenrick | 743 c711 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak in favour of the amendments in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for ...

Chris Bryant | 743 c711 (Link to this contribution)

I completely agree with the right hon. Gentleman about one thing: this Bill will not work. I do n...

Robert Jenrick | 743 c713 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman were right, hundreds of thousands of people would not be making that very j...

Chris Bryant | 743 c713 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Robert Jenrick | 743 c713 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way again to the hon. Gentleman. Let me move forward and speak more directly to o...

Caroline Lucas | 743 c713 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Robert Jenrick | 743 cc713-4 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the hon. Lady in a moment. As night follows day, every migrant will say, “Rwan...

Tim Loughton | 743 c714 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes a good case for deterrents but, I fear, a bad case for his amendments....

Robert Jenrick | 743 cc714-5 (Link to this contribution)

Let me address that question head-on. I have known my hon. Friend for a long time—he was not born...

Rob Roberts | 743 c715 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Robert Jenrick | 743 c715 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way at the moment; let me make some more progress on explaining the amendments, i...

Caroline Lucas | 743 c715 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Member give way?

Pete Wishart | 743 c715 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Member give way?

Robert Jenrick | 743 c715 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way in a moment. When we come to those individuals who are subject to the strictures ...

Rob Roberts | 743 cc715-6 (Link to this contribution)

I want to touch on something the right hon. Gentleman said earlier about whether the Bill will wo...

Robert Jenrick | 743 c716 (Link to this contribution)

I have heard that argument advanced before, and of course I am proud of what we have achieved wit...

Caroline Lucas | 743 c716 (Link to this contribution)

I just point out to the right hon. Gentleman that people arrive in small boats because legal rout...

Robert Jenrick | 743 c716 (Link to this contribution)

On the hon. Lady’s first point, we have had this argument many times before, and she is completel...

Robert Jenrick | 743 cc716-7 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman.

The amendment also says there very narrow ground...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 cc717-8 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak in favour of amendments 35 and 37 and new clause 6, tabled in my name and the nam...

Janet Daby | 743 c718 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government are being extremely neglectful with the public purs...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 c718 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: it is quite remarkable that a party that used to pride itself...

Wera Hobhouse | 743 c718 (Link to this contribution)

The Foreign Office recently admitted that hundreds of Afghans who are eligible for resettlement h...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 c718 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is right. The Afghan schemes are a case in point. The Afghan relocations and assist...

Andrew Gwynne | 743 c718 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an important point about how we need to co-operate much more intensively...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 c719 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If we accept that international co-operation with our Europea...

William Cash | 743 c719 (Link to this contribution)

Has it escaped the hon. Gentleman’s notice that one claim was dismissed by the Supreme Court judg...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 c719 (Link to this contribution)

Of course Parliament is sovereign, and of course we in this place are sent here to make laws, but...

Richard Graham | 743 c719 (Link to this contribution)

Just to tease out a little more Labour policy on the specific issue that the hon. Gentleman refer...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 c719 (Link to this contribution)

Well, that is an interesting one; I did not have talking about the sub-postmasters scandal on my ...

John Redwood | 743 c720 (Link to this contribution)

Has the shadow Minister not seen all the comments and budget lines that the Government have put o...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 c720 (Link to this contribution)

The co-operation with France is to be welcomed. The problem is that it is too far downstream. We ...

Robert Jenrick | 743 c720 (Link to this contribution)

Over the Christmas period, the Labour Front Benchers anonymously briefed The Times saying that th...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 cc720-1 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the former Immigration Minister for his comments. I enjoyed opposing him and, on some occ...

Tim Loughton | 743 c721 (Link to this contribution)

It is a little disingenuous to liken this process to the Ukrainian scheme. The only criteria for ...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 cc721-3 (Link to this contribution)

There has been a 30% drop since 2010 in convictions of criminal smuggler gangs, and a 50% drop si...

Robert Jenrick | 743 c722 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is very kind to give way a second time. I have listened to him carefully, but ...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 c722 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Member for that intervention. I do not think I could have made it any clea...

William Cash | 743 cc722-4 (Link to this contribution)

We want the Bill to succeed. We want it to work and to do what our voters want, but at present it...

John Redwood | 743 c724 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is doing a wonderful job, as always. Did he see the recent briefings, which seemed...

William Cash | 743 cc724-6 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid to say that does appear to be the inevitable inference to be drawn from the statement...

Kevin Foster | 743 c726 (Link to this contribution)

I am very much enjoying my hon. Friend’s speech, as always. He gave the example of Germany, which...

William Cash | 743 c727 (Link to this contribution)

I am extremely glad that my hon. Friend has made that point, because I had the disobliging necess...

John Hayes | 743 c727 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a compelling argument about the difference between this country and thos...

William Cash | 743 cc727-9 (Link to this contribution)

I have to say, with all humility, that it is not so much that I agree with them, or that they agr...

Diana Johnson | 743 cc729-731 (Link to this contribution)

I start by raising my concerns with the Government about using a Committee of the whole House for...

John Hayes | 743 c730 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Lady will know that under this Government and previous Governments of all politica...

Diana Johnson | 743 cc730-2 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know whether I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that intervention, because th...

Robert Buckland | 743 cc732-4 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson...

John Hayes | 743 c734 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. and learned Friend is making a profound and important point about the nature of the...

Robert Buckland | 743 cc734-5 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree. My right hon. Friend and I are both romantic Tories of an old school, which mig...

Richard Graham | 743 c735 (Link to this contribution)

I want to bring my right hon. and learned Friend back to the amendments. Does he agree that betwe...

Robert Buckland | 743 c735 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend puts the point very well. There is a landing space for this policy. I disagree wit...

Robert Jenrick | 743 c735 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. and learned Friend is generous in giving way. With all his experience as former Jus...

Robert Buckland | 743 c735 (Link to this contribution)

I will give, if not a professional opinion, my right hon. Friend an opinion born out of experienc...

Danny Kruger | 743 c736 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. and learned Friend is being very generous and I appreciate the speech he is making....

Robert Buckland | 743 c736 (Link to this contribution)

I am inclined to be kind to my hon. Friend. It is probably not an either/or, but an and. He and t...

Robert Jenrick | 743 c736 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. and learned Friend may not be aware that after has left office the current waiting ...

Robert Buckland | 743 c736 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is right. He is building on the frustration that I had. That is not a critic...

Richard Graham | 743 c736 (Link to this contribution)

The practice of Government, certainly over the last 14 years, has been that where there were bott...

Robert Buckland | 743 c737 (Link to this contribution)

Where there is a will there is a way. I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I do not want to deta...

John Hayes | 743 c737 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. and learned Friend is once again right that this place should not act in an arbitra...

Robert Buckland | 743 c738 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my right hon. Friend that we are not just another public agency. This is Parliament ...

Olivia Blake | 743 c738 (Link to this contribution)

Let me begin by declaring my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, which refers ...

Alex Sobel | 743 c739 (Link to this contribution)

Many of the amendments relate to whether or not Rwanda is a safe country. Would we not be in a di...

Olivia Blake | 743 c739 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree. That is an important point, and we are struggling to get much sense out of the ...

Tim Loughton | 743 c739 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Lady knows, I agree with her that we need to extend safe and legal routes—that is why...

Olivia Blake | 743 c739 (Link to this contribution)

We need the safe and legal routes first. The rates at which people are accepted as having a reaso...

Tim Loughton | 743 c739 (Link to this contribution)

That is an interesting point, but how does the hon. Lady explain the fact that France receives mo...

Olivia Blake | 743 cc739-740 (Link to this contribution)

I would hope that our system has the trust of its politicians and is robust enough to ensure that...

Edward Leigh | 743 cc740-1 (Link to this contribution)

Immigration is quite possibly the most important issue facing this Government or indeed any Gover...

Patrick Grady | 743 c741 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant) also asked that question. If it is so attractive t...

Edward Leigh | 743 cc742-3 (Link to this contribution)

What is the hon. Gentleman’s solution? When Opposition Members make these arguments, they have to...

Alison Thewliss | 743 c743 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is talking, quite ridiculously, about people concocting stories—I feel t...

Edward Leigh | 743 c743 (Link to this contribution)

They may not concoct it; it may be entirely true—we do not know. However, what we all know is tru...

Richard Graham | 743 cc743-4 (Link to this contribution)

May I posit a slightly different approach? As my right hon. Friend says, all of us on the Governm...

Edward Leigh | 743 c744 (Link to this contribution)

To be fair to my hon. Friend, I do not like what I am suggesting, but we are faced with a nationa...

Ruth Jones | 743 cc744-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is always interesting to follow the right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh). I a...

Rob Roberts | 743 cc746-750 (Link to this contribution)

Good afternoon, Mr Evans, and thank you for calling me to speak in this important debate in refer...

Michael Shanks | 743 cc747-752 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow a contribution that was slightly more rational than those we have hear...

Simon Clarke | 743 cc752-5 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to speak in the debate. I rise to speak in support of the amendments standing in...

Rob Roberts | 743 c753 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. I am curious, and it is possibly my procedural ...

Nigel Evans | 743 c753 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I remind Members that when intervening they should please look forward, so that their voic...

Simon Clarke | 743 cc753-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. It is possible to bring back a Bill on this issu...

Simon Clarke | 743 c756 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way further on this point. We are clearly keen as a Conservative party to deliver...

Jane Stevenson | 743 cc756-7 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash...

Alison Thewliss | 743 c757 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady says that the asylum system has limitations, but does she accept that the only way ...

Jane Stevenson | 743 c757 (Link to this contribution)

Another absurdity that my constituents raise with me is that Opposition parties seem to speak for...

Alison Thewliss | 743 c757 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady’s point is quite absurd. Nobody is saying, realistically, that 8 billion people are...

Jane Stevenson | 743 cc757-8 (Link to this contribution)

I fundamentally disagree with the hon. Lady. Scotland does not have the same issues as many Engli...

Nigel Evans | 743 c758 (Link to this contribution)

After Miriam Cates, Matt Warman will be the last Back-Bench speaker. The wind-ups will begin afte...

Miriam Cates | 743 cc758-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East (Jane Stevenson...

Lia Nici | 743 c759 (Link to this contribution)

I commend my hon. Friend for all the work that she has been doing in this regard. Does she agree ...

Miriam Cates | 743 cc759-761 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree. The problem is that Britain has become known as a soft touch, partly because of...

Jane Stevenson | 743 c761 (Link to this contribution)

Would my hon. Friend agree that a focus on foreign aid and a united effort—[Interruption.] I than...

Miriam Cates | 743 c761 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend, who of course is right. One of the many solutions to this problem is...

Nigel Evans | 743 c761 (Link to this contribution)

After Matt Warman we will have the ministerial response, then Alison Thewliss will make reference...

Matt Warman | 743 cc761-2 (Link to this contribution)

I want to begin by talking about the remarkable contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for Sto...

William Cash | 743 c762 (Link to this contribution)

Having looked at my amendment carefully, has my hon. Friend observed that the only way to guarant...

Matt Warman | 743 cc762-3 (Link to this contribution)

I would agree with my hon. Friend that the Bill could go through, but that does not guarantee leg...

William Cash | 743 c763 (Link to this contribution)

I hope my hon. Friend noticed that I said that changes to the European Union’s charter of fundame...

Matt Warman | 743 c763 (Link to this contribution)

I fear that some of what my hon. Friend says is correct, but it is also true that we lessen our a...

Lia Nici | 743 c763 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend and near constituency neighbour for giving way. I am sure his constituents...

Matt Warman | 743 cc763-4 (Link to this contribution)

I agree up to a point, but the Government can go only so far before they lessen their chances of ...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 cc764-5 (Link to this contribution)

What a great pleasure it is to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt War...

Patrick Grady | 743 c765 (Link to this contribution)

If Rwanda is a safe and secure place in which asylum seekers can live comfortable and productive ...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 c765 (Link to this contribution)

The deterrent is because they are seeking to come to this country and not Rwanda. I hope the hon....

William Cash | 743 c765 (Link to this contribution)

On that point, will the Minister give way?

William Cash | 743 c765 (Link to this contribution)

As he heard, I made reference to the Rwanda judgment and the case of ASM, whose claim was dismiss...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 cc765-6 (Link to this contribution)

As my hon. Friend knows, he and I agree on a great deal and I have paragraph 144 engraved on my h...

Lia Nici | 743 c766 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I am being facetious, but seeing as so many illegal migrants are fleeing France, should w...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 c766 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend might have been a touch facetious in her intervention—she herself said it, otherwi...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 cc766-8 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady has been straightforward about that; she is nodding. We are agreeing yet again duri...

Martin Docherty-Hughes | 743 c768 (Link to this contribution)

On India, Jagtar Singh Johal has now been detained for over six years. Is the Minister saying tha...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 c768 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am saying that this House passed legislation last night stating that India is generally a s...

William Cash | 743 c768 (Link to this contribution)

I merely repeat the point that parliamentary sovereignty has to be combined with clear and unambi...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 c769 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the intervention, and I agree with my hon. Friend: he is absolutely right about...

Sarah Dines | 743 c769 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister clarify whether, if the Government can, as reported in The Times and The Daily ...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 c769 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right and I sense, understand and share her passion for resolving the issues in...

Rob Roberts | 743 c770 (Link to this contribution)

Before the Minister moves on from the contribution of the right hon. Member for Middlesbrough Sou...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 c770 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate my determination to get the Bill through. I am the Minister fo...

Tom Hunt | 743 c770 (Link to this contribution)

It has been explained that the grounds for individual appeals are exceptionally narrow, so why ar...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 cc770-1 (Link to this contribution)

As I said in response to a previous intervention, they are being stood up in relation to the Ille...

Stephen Kinnock | 743 c771 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is simply misrepresenting the purpose of new clause 6. Its purpose is to put the mon...

Michael Tomlinson | 743 c771 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the shadow Minister for his intervention. When he was setting the policy out in ...

Alison Thewliss | 743 cc771-2 (Link to this contribution)

What a despondent, pathetic, ridiculous Bill this has been, and what a grim debate it has been to...

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