Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Lords amendment 70, Government mo...

I propose first to talk about some of the key changes made to the Bill in the other place as a re...

The inner house of the Court of Session, Scotland’s highest court, has recently clarified that in...

I acknowledge some of the problems with the amendment that the hon. and learned Lady sets out. I ...

I would like to correct the record, because that is not what Women’s Aid has said.

The Mini...

I had hoped to avoid the approach that the hon. Lady takes. Of course we believe that women deser...

My right hon. Friend and I worked hard on the issues underpinning the Bill and on the Bill itself...

My right hon. and learned Friend is right that we need to have a serious look at the suite of off...

I have listened with care to my right hon. Friend, and I accept what he says. I am encouraged by ...

I completely agree with my right hon. and learned Friend, and I am as impatient as he is, not lea...

I am grateful for what the Minister has said, particularly about the early amendment on spiking. ...

I completely agree with my hon. Friend, and he is absolutely right that we need to look carefully...

The amendment to the hate legislation does not create a new offence, and the Minister will be awa...

All I can do for the hon. Lady is quote from the Law Commission’s report, which I assume she has ...

I thank the Minister for all his work. I am concerned about how ladies and girls will have confid...

I completely sympathise with the hon. Gentleman’s sentiment. Having been in this House for nearly...

It sounds a bit like the Minister is saying that the words we say in here do not really matter, b...

I am sorry, but I am not sure that the Government ever made that promise. [ Interruption. ] Hold ...

I have read the section that the Minister is referring to.

The Law Commission report is unequivocal about the dangers that it may present. The hon. Member f...

I would like to correct the record, because the Minister seemed to suggest that I was against wha...

I can appreciate the hon. Lady’s requirement for action. As I say, action is what we are trying t...

Does the Minister agree that it is important for Opposition Members to understand what Rape Crisi...

My hon. Friend has put her finger on the button of the problem. It is not that we are unsympathet...

In support of the English Law Commission—hon. Members should be aware that the legislation applie...

There are a number of definitional issues within the Lords amendment that produce fatal flaws, bu...

On the consultation that the Minister will undertake, is it a very targeted consultation on the s...

I am grateful to the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee. I cannot give her a definition as it st...

It does sound, from what the Minister has shared, that this is seen solely through the prism of a...

We do believe that the online harms Bill will cover the vast majority of the offending where this...

Will the Minister give way?

And finally!

I thank the Minister for giving way on that point. Shelter states that over 30,000 women since th...

As I say, there are already offences being committed in those circumstances, and we have had succ...

Order. As everybody can see, the Lords amendments are in three groups. Please speak only to the L...

I thank the Minister for his speech. He comes late to this party—he was not part of the Committee...

I thank my hon. Friend for making such a fantastic speech. Does she agree with me that there need...

I absolutely do agree with my hon. Friend, and that is what we are trying to achieve tonight. Thi...

Would the hon. Lady agree with me that introducing this will require an extra burden of proof to ...

I understand what the hon. Member is saying, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (St...

I share the hon. Lady’s horror of misogyny, but I do not understand why although “sex” is defined...

I understand the point that the hon. and learned Lady is making. The offences are motivated by ho...

But surely as legislators, if we use a word we have to define it. We all know that there have bee...

The aim of the amendment is to try to make misogyny a hate crime in whatever form it comes, and t...

Does my hon. Friend agree that given that “gender” is defined in legislation—indeed, the Governme...

rose —

I feel as if there should be a three-way conversation in another place to tackle some of these qu...

Perhaps I can help out and say that, although no legislation is a silver bullet, this measure wou...

The hon. Lady puts it very well, and I completely agree. We have seen with the recording of such ...

The hon. Lady talks about the importance of symbolism, and I agree with her. Is she concerned tha...

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow sai...

Just to correct the record, surely the issue was that there was no hate crime legislation to pros...

By the time that prosecution happened such legislation was in place, and there is precedent for t...

Order. Members should stand only if they want to take part in debate on the first group of amendm...

As a woman who is perennially in a hurry and terribly impatient, I will ensure that my contributi...

Girls from Stroud High School got me into their school to talk about the public sexual harassment...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is in our schools that those calls are strongest, which me...

I completely agree with everything that the right hon. Member said. It is frustrating as always t...

The hon. Lady makes an important and powerful point. It is imperative that we look at this issue ...

On a small point of clarification, my right hon. Friend quite rightly referred to how the vast ma...

I thank my hon. Friend for that comment. I hope that I did not in any way give the impression tha...

Order. To help those people who have asked about the noisy protest and the right to protest, that...

I will keep my comments to Lords amendments concerning the extraction of information from electro...

I think, listening objectively to today’s debate, there is an enormous level of agreement on both...

I will start, because I have had an unintended hiatus from being in the Chamber as a result of ha...

I am listening very closely to what the hon. Lady is saying, but the Law Commission was very clea...

I hope the right hon. Member will understand what I am saying. The Law Commission did not look at...

rose —

I will happily give way to the Minister. I hope he is not going to tell me again to read the Law ...

This is an important issue and I am grateful to the hon. Lady, but I just wanted to point out to ...

I am sorry, but the Minister is conflating two different things here. The Law Commission did not ...

I have said that specifically.

That is not what the Minister has said, but I am pleased to hear him say that—[ Interruption. ] G...

rose—

I will happily give way to the Minister; I can see him shaking his head and I am keen to hear his...

I am sorry, but the hon. Lady seems determined to have a fight about this and I really do not wan...

I hope that the Minister will forgive me if I mention that there are, I think, more than 17 Law C...

Order. I am just thinking about protecting a bit of time for the Front Benchers, so if I put on a...

I would like to speak in support of the Government and against making misogyny a hate crime, as s...

I rise to speak in support of Lords amendment 72. Existing hate crime legislation must be extende...

Will the hon. Lady give way?

I will not, because of time.

We should start sending a very strong signal today. Hate crime...

I spent last Friday evening in St Peter’s Rooms in Ruddington with a nurse, councillors, shop own...

Order.

The Bill is dangerous and undemocratic and has united a broad church of organisations in oppositi...

I will confine my remarks to Lords amendment 72. Let me to say at the outset that I understand th...

I recently had a conversation with a constituent who has introduced reporting of misogyny as a cr...

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point, and it is the point that the hon. Member for Walthamstow...

The Bill contains many good provisions, but I will confine myself to the subject of the serious v...

I find this fascinating. So often in these debates, it is entirely understandable for the Opposit...

Order. I call the Minister.

With the leave of the House, I shall respond to the debate. I am grateful to all the Members who ...

I beg to move, That this House agrees with Lords amendment 1.

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Lords amendment 58, and Governmen...

There are no less than 161 Lords amendments for the House to consider this evening. To ensure tha...

Will the Minister simply confirm that where an emergency service worker is off duty but an emerge...

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s question. If the scope of this measure was restricted to m...

The Minister has given us a great deal of information, but has not actually answered my specific ...

If I may, in the wind-up, I will happily clarify for the House’s benefit the point that the hon. ...

The Minister is absolutely right to pay tribute to Lissie Harper and to our emergency services. H...

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s observations. We touched on those matters when we spoke last w...

Can I clarify whether the provisions will apply to volunteer emergency services workers, such as ...

Again, I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the question. If I may, I will touch on those matters ...

May I just place on record the extreme gratitude of Tony’s real parents—the parents who actually ...

My hon. Friend puts the case very eloquently, and it is a privilege to be able to stand at this D...

I hear what the Minister is saying, but looking into something is not the same as giving a clear ...

I am always grateful to the hon. Lady for her interventions, and I repeat my point: we do not bel...

It is a pleasure to follow the Minister. I will not speak to all 58 amendments under debate, as s...

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is illogical that the Government will not make the simple conce...

I agree with my hon. Friend. Local authorities have a tremendous amount of experience in caring f...

Does my hon. Friend agree that children who commit crime are vulnerable, and in need of positive ...

I absolutely agree. My hon. Friend speaks so passionately about this issue. It is absolutely righ...

I am grateful for the chance to speak in the debate. This area of the Bill raises a number of imp...

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way and for starting the inquiry. One piece o...

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady. We heard very compelling testimony on precisely those points...

I want to start with a positive and then I will move on. I begin by welcoming Lords amendment 98,...

May I say how pleased I am to see the Government bringing forward proposals to stamp out illegal ...

rose —

I give way to my Huntingdonshire colleague.

As a Cambridgeshire neighbour, I am well aware of the difficulties that the Bill seeks to put rig...

I agree with my hon. Friend in every regard. He has made the important point that when legislatio...

I rise to support Lords amendment 1, commonly known as Harper’s Law, and to take this opportunity...

It is once again a great pleasure to be able to speak in favour of this Bill. As we know, the fir...

I am delighted to see a Bill that will do so much to deliver justice and make our communities saf...

Pointy black-tipped ears, furry and brown, and the ability to make a getaway at 45 mph. This is t...

I thank Members from across the House for their many and varied contributions to the various amen...

I am grateful to the Minister, as it does. I hope that he makes sure that we have a timely respon...

Yes, I am always keen that the Department is as timely as possible in engaging with my hon. Frien...

Will the Minister give way?

I will give the hon. Lady another opportunity.

Round 5, Minister.

Will the Minister please clarify what the objection is to making it very...

The hon. Lady is persistent in these matters. All I can do, I am afraid, is simply refer her back...

Are local authorities ruled in or ruled out?

I refer to the point that I made earlier, which is that we believe there is no barrier.

Lor...

We now move to the third set of amendments. When I call the Minister to move the motion, it would...

I beg to move that this House disagrees with Lords amendment 71.

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Lords amendment 74, and Governmen...

Lords amendment 71 would introduce a duty of candour for the police workforce. I am sure that hon...

I very much look forward to the tightening of the laws, but I am also conscious that I look for b...

I do indeed believe that the balance is right, but the hon. Gentleman does not have to take my wo...

My right hon. Friend knows that I have real concerns about the noisy protest legislation. How oft...

Obviously, it is hard for me to predict how often these things will be used. I will come on to ta...

Will the Minister give way?

I will make a little bit of progress.

On my previous point about the Lords accepting the ne...

I will come to the hon. Members in a moment.

I am sure that all hon. Members will recall vi...

To assure the House that there will be an objective standard rather than a subjective one, can th...

As the House would expect, we are not prescribing limits in the way the hon. Gentleman is asking ...

Would the Minister acknowledge that our public order laws already make it harder to protest than ...

I do not know who is throwing the red meat here, but it is certainly not me. Obviously the hon. L...

The Minister is implying that the police and Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire ...

The inspectorate obviously would not request that because that is not its job, but we certainly a...

I think it would help me, and it might help others in the Chamber, if the Minister would consider...

I am happy to commit to reviewing the offence. I would love to put a time limit on it but, as I s...

The Minister is being generous in accepting interventions. Does he think that, while well intende...

No, not necessarily—[ Laughter. ] No, no. As a former Westminster councillor and London Assembly ...

Does the Minister appreciate that many people listening to this debate will be very suspicious of...

Of course we are not closing down protest. The right hon. Gentleman is right that people have a f...

Will the Minister give way?

No. I have given way lots of times. There will be many speakers, and I do not want to use up all ...

Will the Minister give way?

I thought I was going to get away with it. Yes, go on.

The Minister talks about the cost of demonstrations—those on the road networks in particular—to p...

At the moment, those incarcerations are at the behest of a judge in a civil matter relating to th...

The Minister seeks to take public opinion as a whole, but people have had to take these matters i...

We cannot operate a democracy on the basis that, unless the Government agree with everything that...

Will the Minister give way?

No, I have given away enough; I have to move on. We acknowledge the fundamental importance of the...

Order. We have very limited time, so after the next speaker from the Opposition Front Bench there...

I want to begin by making a comment in this House on the Government’s procedure in the other plac...

Does my hon. Friend concur that those who protested in Peterloo were probably a little bit noisy,...

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, who put it so well.

Protests occur so that people can be heard, and if people need to be heard, they need to make a n...

My hon. Friend is right: this is about getting the right balance. We believe that the measures in...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the level of nuisance caused by any noise or vocalisation at a pro...

That is an important point. The way the police interpret the laws we give them will always be sub...

If we consider what the future will hold if the House follows the route that the Government sugge...

That is a very valid point. On the noise issue, I cannot see that the police will find a way to u...

I want to speak in particular about the issue of noisy protest, but I should begin by saying that...

Let me begin by speaking about Lords amendments 73 to 89, which broadly cover the provisions in p...

The hon. Lady will have heard the noisy protests in this Chamber every Wednesday between 12 and 1...

Some of us do try to keep that under control. We try our very best amid a lack of co-operation.