UK Parliament / Open data

Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Thursday, 15 October 2020, in the House of Commons.
Committee stage. Clause 1, amendment 20, debated with clauses 2 to 7, schedules 1 and 2, new clauses and amendments. Amendment withdrawn. Clause 1, amendment 7 negatived on division (256 to 317). Clause 1, amendment 8 negatived on division (256 to 316). Clause 1 agreed to. Clause 2, amendment 16 negatived on division (65 to 311). Clause 2 to 7 agreed to. New clause 4 negatived on division (255 to 314). Schedules 1 and 2 agreed to. Bill reported, without amendment. Third reading. Agreed to on division (313 to 98). Bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

682 cc563-615 

Session

2019-21

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage and Third reading

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill 2019-21
Thursday, 24 September 2020
Bills
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2020-0615
Thursday, 15 October 2020
Deposited papers
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Nigel Evans | 682 c563 (Link to this contribution)

I should explain that in these exceptional circumstances, although the Chair of the Committee wou...

Alistair Carmichael | 682 c563 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 20, page 1, line 18, at end insert—

“(3A) In section 27 (Lawful sur...


Show all contributions (95)
Nigel Evans | 682 cc563-9 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 7, page 2, line 7, at e...

Alistair Carmichael | 682 cc569-570 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to speak also to amendments 14 to 19, which were tabled in my name and the names of other ...

David Davis | 682 c570 (Link to this contribution)

I might be able to help the Government along with this. It appears that the power to authorise a ...

Alistair Carmichael | 682 c570 (Link to this contribution)

With help like that, I am not sure that the Government necessarily need any obstruction. Yes, I a...

Lord Beamish | 682 c570 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is making an important point, but the Human Rights Act is not the only p...

Alistair Carmichael | 682 cc570-1 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed, and the guidance is important. It is helpful to have that published, but of course, guida...

Jim Shannon | 682 c571 (Link to this contribution)

I suspect that the right hon. Gentleman and I have slightly different opinions on the Bill. My pa...

Alistair Carmichael | 682 c571 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point; it is not perhaps germane to the legislation, but it...

James Brokenshire | 682 c571 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know whether this will be helpful to the right hon. Gentleman, but I just draw his atten...

Alistair Carmichael | 682 cc571-3 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister does help me and I am grateful for his assistance, because if that reasonable belief...

Nigel Evans | 682 c573 (Link to this contribution)

There are 22 Members—because a couple have withdrawn—on the call list. It would be really useful ...

Robert Neill | 682 cc573-5 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) and I ve...

David Davis | 682 c574 (Link to this contribution)

One distinction between amendment 13 and others is that it gives the Director of Public Prosecuti...

Robert Neill | 682 c574 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes a fair point in that regard. The DPP would be entitled to do that as a...

Bell Ribeiro-Addy | 682 cc574-6 (Link to this contribution)

As I expect we will not get an opportunity for Third Reading, I start by saying this: another day...

Lord Beamish | 682 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend that some of the things that have gone on in the past, such as the Fi...

Bell Ribeiro-Addy | 682 cc576-7 (Link to this contribution)

I will have to respectfully disagree, but I will come to that point.

Let me start with our ...

Joanna Cherry | 682 c577 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Lady knows, I and my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) a...

Bell Ribeiro-Addy | 682 cc577-8 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. and learned Member is absolutely right, and that is why we cannot be comforted by those ...

David Davis | 682 c578 (Link to this contribution)

I will pay attention to your encouragement to be brief, Mr Evans. Although I support the intent o...

Mark Pritchard | 682 c578 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend has huge experience in this area, both legislatively and professionally. He ...

David Davis | 682 cc578-9 (Link to this contribution)

I will say a couple of things on that. First, if the gangster is smart enough to read the Act, he...

Alistair Carmichael | 682 c579 (Link to this contribution)

On the point about rendition, the right hon. Gentleman will recall the Intelligence and Security ...

David Davis | 682 c579 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman is right, and we should not forget that the clause that was used require...

Robert Neill | 682 c580 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad that my right hon. Friend is making a powerful speech, referencing not only Lord Steven...

David Davis | 682 c580 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Sir Desmond did something else in his report: he quoted Lord ...

Mark Pritchard | 682 c580 (Link to this contribution)

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

David Davis | 682 c580 (Link to this contribution)

You will kill me, Mr Chairman, but I will give way.

Mark Pritchard | 682 c580 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend rightly mentions the Pat Finucane case which David Cameron, as Prime Ministe...

David Davis | 682 cc580-1 (Link to this contribution)

Well, they have changed a bit. One of the things that the Intelligence Services Act 1994 created ...

Stella Creasy | 682 cc581-3 (Link to this contribution)

It is an honour to follow the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis), and I agre...

James Brokenshire | 682 c582 (Link to this contribution)

I will respond to the hon. Lady formally in my winding-up speech, but I would like to stress that...

Stella Creasy | 682 cc582-4 (Link to this contribution)

I recognise what the Minister says. The challenge is that we already know of children and vulnera...

James Sunderland | 682 cc584-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to be called so early in this key debate, having been unable to speak on Second Rea...

Lloyd Russell-Moyle | 682 c585 (Link to this contribution)

On people trying to flush out covert agents by getting them to do things that are on this suppose...

James Sunderland | 682 cc585-6 (Link to this contribution)

My key point is that the Human Rights Act does provide those protections, but in the context of o...

Yvette Cooper | 682 cc586-9 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the remarks of the hon. Member for Bracknell (James Sunderland) about the important wor...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 682 c589 (Link to this contribution)

I remind Members that there are a number of colleagues down to speak in the debate. There will be...

Julian Lewis | 682 cc589-590 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Dame Rosie; I shall endeavour to be helpful. It is only by the good fortune, dare I sa...

Bob Stewart | 682 c590 (Link to this contribution)

It is only the number and the category; there is no detail, because that would be extremely dange...

Julian Lewis | 682 c590 (Link to this contribution)

That is absolutely right, and the whole point about the detail is that that is the job of the Inv...

Gavin Robinson | 682 c590 (Link to this contribution)

I support new clause 3. I think the emphasis behind it is right, and the work that the right hon....

Julian Lewis | 682 c590 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman, with whom I worked so closely on the Defence Committee, as always gets to the...

Lord Beamish | 682 c590 (Link to this contribution)

The reason for not giving that figure is clearly that it would give an advantage to those we are ...

Julian Lewis | 682 cc590-1 (Link to this contribution)

Yes. What it is important to remember and, it must be said, what has not always been remembered i...

Stewart Hosie | 682 c591 (Link to this contribution)

Before the right hon. Gentleman moves on to his next subject, there is also an issue of trust. Th...

Julian Lewis | 682 cc591-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am obviously hoping that the Minister will convince us in the course of this afternoon that we ...

Jeremy Corbyn | 682 cc592-4 (Link to this contribution)

The proceedings on this Bill today are an absolute travesty of parliamentary accountability. That...

Dan Carden | 682 c594 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Dame Rosie. I understand that my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hu...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 682 cc594-5 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point of order. I understand that the right hon. Member for N...

Lord Beamish | 682 cc595-7 (Link to this contribution)

There was a time when I used to like the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Dan Carden), when he ...

Dan Carden | 682 c597 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to follow my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones)—

Dan Carden | 682 c597 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend. I think that was one of the briefest speeches he has ever made in this Hous...

Lord Beamish | 682 c597 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend on the contribution that he is making, and I forgive him his earlie...

Dan Carden | 682 c598 (Link to this contribution)

I think my right hon. Friend has far more trust in the words of the Government and the guidance t...

Diana Johnson | 682 cc598-9 (Link to this contribution)

The reason I asked to speak later in the debate this afternoon was made clear by the speech by my...

Dan Carden | 682 c599 (Link to this contribution)

That is such a fundamental oversight that is needed. Is the Bill really fit for purpose without i...

Diana Johnson | 682 c599 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, I support what the Labour Front Bench is doing in making that proposal to the Governme...

Diana Johnson | 682 cc599-600 (Link to this contribution)

I will not, because I know other Members want to speak. I need to say just two more things and th...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 682 c600 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I would like to try to get three more speakers in before 3.18 pm. I will just put that out...

Gavin Robinson | 682 cc600-1 (Link to this contribution)

Dame Rosie, I will engage in this part of proceedings in the spirit of co-operation and collegial...

Alex Sobel | 682 cc601-2 (Link to this contribution)

Time is short, so I will move on rapidly. Tackling terrorism and ensuring that all our citizens a...

Andy Slaughter | 682 cc602-3 (Link to this contribution)

We have heard many excellent speeches in support of amendments that would substantially improve t...

Joanna Cherry | 682 cc603-5 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to amendments 25, 23 and 22, and new clause 7 in the name of the Mother of the Ho...

Chris Stephens | 682 c605 (Link to this contribution)

On human rights, there is a very real concern about the practice of blacklisting. Obviously the c...

Joanna Cherry | 682 c605 (Link to this contribution)

I do share that concern. I really do not understand—others have eloquently made this point—why or...

Conor McGinn | 682 cc605-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure, as always, to follow the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joan...

Lloyd Russell-Moyle | 682 c606 (Link to this contribution)

Whatever we think of the progress later on of the Bill, we have to agree that judicial oversight ...

Conor McGinn | 682 cc606-7 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry that, having been present for the whole debate, my hon. Friend did not get to make a f...

Barry Gardiner | 682 c607 (Link to this contribution)

May I caution my hon. Friend? The excellence of his speech and the amendments should be an argume...

Conor McGinn | 682 cc608-9 (Link to this contribution)

I always take seriously the advice of a senior and distinguished Member of the House. I am confid...

James Brokenshire | 682 cc609-610 (Link to this contribution)

This has been a very informed, considered and thoughtful debate on the various amendments to the ...

John Hayes | 682 c610 (Link to this contribution)

Is not the plain truth of the matter that if we define the role and method of those whose mission...

James Brokenshire | 682 c610 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes a very powerful and important point about the issues at stake here. Th...

Barry Gardiner | 682 c610 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister will know that many of us are concerned about new section 29B(5)(b) and (c) in claus...

James Brokenshire | 682 c610 (Link to this contribution)

The language that is used in what would become new subsection 5 of section 29B is reflective of e...

Joanna Cherry | 682 c610 (Link to this contribution)

The point made by the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes) was d...

James Brokenshire | 682 c611 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the hon. and learned Lady was unable to partake in the Second Reading debate, but I w...

Colum Eastwood | 682 c611 (Link to this contribution)

I know that the Minister has a lot of faith in the security services, but some of us know too muc...

James Brokenshire | 682 cc611-2 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate the seriousness of the point that the hon. Gentleman has made, and he will know more...

Alistair Carmichael | 682 c612 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister be addressing the point that I put to him about operations overseas and the app...

James Brokenshire | 682 c612 (Link to this contribution)

The UK will comply with obligations under the Human Rights Act, including when they arise extrate...

Julian Lewis | 682 c612 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that assurance in good heart. In the letter, the Minister said, “Such information as is ...

James Brokenshire | 682 cc612-3 (Link to this contribution)

I take in equally good faith the way in which my right hon. Friend and the Committee have approac...

James Brokenshire | 682 c613 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way to the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown, just to be fair.

Lloyd Russell-Moyle | 682 c613 (Link to this contribution)

Is the Minister saying that criminals will not be able to read the Human Rights Act 1998 to reali...

James Brokenshire | 682 c613 (Link to this contribution)

I reiterate again that a covert human intelligence source is not able to commit any and all crimi...

James Brokenshire | 682 cc613-4 (Link to this contribution)

I have two minutes left and I still have a few more amendments I would like to discuss.

On ...

Alistair Carmichael | 682 cc614-5 (Link to this contribution)

The House has had a debate this afternoon that has been both good and frustrating at the same tim...

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