UK Parliament / Open data

Finance Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 31 October 2017, in the House of Commons, led by Mel Stride. The answering member was Peter Dowd.
Programme motion (No. 2) on proceedings on consideration, in Legislative Grand Committee, and on third reading. Agreed to on question. Report stage. New clause 1 (Deemed domicile: review of protection of overseas trusts), debated with an amendment. Negatived on division (279 to 309). Amendment 1 to clause 5, debated and negatived on division (274 to 308). Amendment 7 to clause 60, discussed with amendments and new clause 2 (Taxation of chargeable gains: review of treatment of commercial property held by persons with foreign domicile), new clause 3 (Income provided through third parties: review of effects generally and in relation to sports image rights), new clause 4 (Impact analyses of provisions of this Act), and new clause 5 (Review of the conditions of registration for third country goods fulfilment businesses and traders using their services), debated and withdrawn. Amendment 11 to clause 62 negatived on division (243 to 309). New clause 2 negatived on division (279 to 309). Government amendments made. Third reading. Agreed to on division (302 to 276). Bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

630 cc719-796 

Session

2017-19

Department

Treasury

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Finance Bill 2017-19. As amended in Public Bill Committee.
Tuesday, 24 October 2017
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Peter Dowd | 630 c720 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

John Bercow | 630 c720 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to consider Government amendment 17.


Show all contributions (152)
Peter Dowd | 630 cc720-1 (Link to this contribution)

Proceedings on this Bill started in March, but we are now drawing to a close. The Bill’s progress...

Charlie Elphicke | 630 c721 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening to the hon. Gentleman’s case with interest. I am curious why, in their first 12 ye...

Peter Dowd | 630 cc721-2 (Link to this contribution)

If it takes a Labour Government to sort out a problem after more than 200 years, we will sort out...

John Redwood | 630 c722 (Link to this contribution)

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that his well-intentioned proposal might actually backfire, as ...

Peter Dowd | 630 c722 (Link to this contribution)

The problem is that that has been a persistent argument for years, but there does not actually ap...

Mel Stride | 630 c722 (Link to this contribution)

On bearing down on tax avoidance, evasion and non-compliance, does the hon. Gentleman recognise t...

Peter Dowd | 630 c722 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased that the Minister raises that point because we will no doubt have another debate abo...

Vicky Ford | 630 c722 (Link to this contribution)

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that a tax gap that is one of the lowest in the world is someth...

Peter Dowd | 630 c723 (Link to this contribution)

This does not actually include the multinationals, but I was trying to make the point that I am h...

Mel Stride | 630 c723 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is being extremely generous in giving way. On this very important question, do...

Peter Dowd | 630 c723 (Link to this contribution)

The tax gap fell in every year between 2005 and 2010. The Minister brings my attention to his rec...

Nusrat Ghani | 630 c723 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that you do not want to talk about the tax gap and want to move forward, but if you want...

John Bercow | 630 c723 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I am not doing anything. It is not that I do not want to talk about this or I do not want ...

Nusrat Ghani | 630 c723 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry, Mr Speaker.

The hon. Gentleman might not want to talk about the tax gap, but wi...

Peter Dowd | 630 c723 (Link to this contribution)

As much as I would like to debate the tax gap with the hon. Lady, I think that shows an ignorance...

Lucy Frazer | 630 c723 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Peter Dowd | 630 cc723-4 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make a little progress, but I will come back to the hon. and learned Lady in a few mome...

Lucy Frazer | 630 c724 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is being very generous with his time. He has made it clear that he wants to ta...

Peter Dowd | 630 c724 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. and learned Lady for that intervention. Government Members have taken up about s...

Lucy Frazer | 630 c724 (Link to this contribution)

Forgive me for intervening again, but I do not think the hon. Gentleman heard my question: how mu...

Peter Dowd | 630 cc724-5 (Link to this contribution)

If we had a review and identified areas of non-compliance, I suspect we would bring in far more m...

Mel Stride | 630 c725 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is being exceptionally generous in letting us intervene so many times. To bott...

Peter Dowd | 630 c725 (Link to this contribution)

I recognise any progress that anybody makes. If the Government have brought about progress, that ...

Nusrat Ghani | 630 c725 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has been very generous in giving way. I am a little concerned about the messag...

Peter Dowd | 630 cc725-6 (Link to this contribution)

That is a starter and I am sure that much more could be brought in. Again, I am sure that in an e...

John Redwood | 630 c726 (Link to this contribution)

I think that we all agree in this House that we need to collect substantial revenues to have dece...

Peter Dowd | 630 c726 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that there is a difference between an ISA and institutional, ...

John Redwood | 630 cc726-7 (Link to this contribution)

There is a huge difference between breaking the law and living within the law. However, where Gov...

Robert Jenrick | 630 c727 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that we do not make these decisions in isolation? We are competin...

John Redwood | 630 cc727-8 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend anticipates my next point. We live in a global world. The richer people are, the m...

Charlie Elphicke | 630 c728 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the greatest threat to tax havens is not the blustering of t...

John Redwood | 630 c728 (Link to this contribution)

That is correct. Tax havens have helped to drive down tax rates in other centres. We only have to...

Robert Courts | 630 c728 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend makes a very important point: how important it is that this country does not...

John Redwood | 630 c728 (Link to this contribution)

That is exactly the kind of sum of money I am talking about. That is a serious sum of money for o...

Sammy Wilson | 630 c728 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that the Opposition probably fully understand and acknowledg...

John Redwood | 630 c728 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree. I pointed out at the beginning that Labour in office was probably more gentle o...

Mel Stride | 630 c729 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that when the Opposition refer to non-doms as tax dodgers, they a...

John Redwood | 630 c729 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, it is very offensive language to call people tax dodgers. If they willingly come to our coun...

Kirsty Blackman | 630 cc729-730 (Link to this contribution)

I start by telling the House of the sad death of my predecessor, Frank Doran, who was the MP for ...

Charlie Elphicke | 630 c730 (Link to this contribution)

Is the hon. Lady saying that she would not like people in Britain to enjoy lower taxes, if they w...

Kirsty Blackman | 630 c730 (Link to this contribution)

I was talking about tax havens; I think people have a good understanding of the difference betwee...

Charlie Elphicke | 630 c730 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady not see the opportunity with Brexit to stop large businesses using European la...

Kirsty Blackman | 630 c730 (Link to this contribution)

As for the opportunity with Brexit, Scotland will be £30 billion worse off as a result of it. My ...

James Cleverly | 630 cc730-2 (Link to this contribution)

As I am sure you agree, Mr Speaker, we all love a familiar tune that we can hum or whistle along ...

Anna Soubry | 630 c732 (Link to this contribution)

I am enjoying the very good speech that my hon. Friend is making. Obviously, I do not want to get...

James Cleverly | 630 c732 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my right hon. Friend for her intervention. We may not necessarily agree on the Brexit dec...

Charlie Elphicke | 630 c732 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Bank of England and the Treasury have a duty to talk this coun...

James Cleverly | 630 c732 (Link to this contribution)

I will be more than happy to invite Treasury officials and Mark Carney to the end of days party t...

Vicky Ford | 630 cc732-3 (Link to this contribution)

We are debating a new clause that suggests that, within 15 months of passing the Bill, there shou...

James Cleverly | 630 c733 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is spot on. I cannot help but think that new clause 1 is more to do with Labour Me...

Bim Afolami | 630 c733 (Link to this contribution)

I felt that, as I was going to speak this afternoon, I should listen to speeches by colleagues in...

Bim Afolami | 630 c733 (Link to this contribution)

I know that is a controversial view that many have. In particular, I listened very carefully to t...

Bim Afolami | 630 cc733-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am. The hon. Gentleman made some interesting remarks, but I am going to pick him up on one phra...

John Redwood | 630 c734 (Link to this contribution)

On that point, would my hon. Friend care to reflect on the issue of footballers? The Labour Front...

Bim Afolami | 630 c734 (Link to this contribution)

Not only do I agree with my right hon. Friend about footballers, but I think that most people—amo...

Charlie Elphicke | 630 c734 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is being generous in taking interventions. He served on the Finance Bill Committee...

Bim Afolami | 630 c734 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, I did have the huge pleasure of serving on the Finance Bill Committee and it was fascinating...

Lord Mackinlay of Richborough | 630 c734 (Link to this contribution)

The UK tax code is now 22,000 pages long and involves 10 million words. Does my hon. Friend agree...

Bim Afolami | 630 c734 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend. Being in government is a complicated matter, and Rome was not built ...

Charlie Elphicke | 630 c735 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that leaving the EU presents a great opportunity for us to take back co...

Bim Afolami | 630 c735 (Link to this contribution)

I hugely respect my hon. Friend. It is worth mentioning for the benefit of those who do not know ...

John Redwood | 630 c735 (Link to this contribution)

The problem with the comments of the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) is that she...

Bim Afolami | 630 c735 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that point. Members present appear to be reaching consensus that the Government should a...

Vicky Ford | 630 c735 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for the work he has done on the detail of this Bill. Does he agree that cl...

Bim Afolami | 630 c736 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is expert in these matters and knows about them in immense detail, having served i...

Alex Burghart | 630 c736 (Link to this contribution)

It is an honour and a privilege to be speaking during the Report stage of the Finance Bill. You w...

Anna Soubry | 630 c736 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech, although I would be intrigued to find out, perhaps ...

Alex Burghart | 630 cc736-7 (Link to this contribution)

I could not agree more with my right hon. Friend. She can rest assured that she is always welcome...

Robert Jenrick | 630 c737 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to put this into perspective so that our constituents can appreciate our achievement...

Alex Burghart | 630 c737 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for bringing those figures to the House. Our extraordinarily impr...

Eddie Hughes | 630 c737 (Link to this contribution)

I rise because it is dreadful to hear this wrong story being perpetuated in the House of Commons....

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 630 c738 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I am sure that when the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) responds, he w...

Alex Burghart | 630 c738 (Link to this contribution)

You are quite right, Madam Deputy Speaker. I assure you that my comment was directly relevant to ...

Eddie Hughes | 630 c738 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a great speech. Another vital factor that we must consider is the elemen...

Alex Burghart | 630 c738 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for that wonderful speech. He is of course entirely right that these measu...

Colin Clark | 630 c738 (Link to this contribution)

Clarifying non-dom status is absolutely the right thing to do, but it is also crucial to ensure t...

Alex Burghart | 630 c739 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. It is crucial, perhaps now more than ever, that this countr...

Mel Stride | 630 c739 (Link to this contribution)

I begin by thanking the hon. Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd) for his interesting and informative c...

Anna Soubry | 630 c739 (Link to this contribution)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that an important point to make about non-doms is that the idea t...

Mel Stride | 630 c740 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is entirely right and pre-empts the point that I was about to make, which is...

Geraint Davies | 630 c740 (Link to this contribution)

What the Minister says is true so far as it goes, but I recently met representatives of Man, with...

Mel Stride | 630 c740 (Link to this contribution)

Certainty for the future is precisely what the proposals deliver, and they were extensively consu...

Geraint Davies | 630 c740 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister understand the deep concern about the need for transparency, legitimacy and fai...

Mel Stride | 630 cc741-2 (Link to this contribution)

We are right in the vanguard, as the hon. Gentleman knows. The OECD’s initiative to address base ...

Geraint Davies | 630 c742 (Link to this contribution)

Is the Minister saying it is fair for someone to tax plan to leave the country, make a load of mo...

Mel Stride | 630 c742 (Link to this contribution)

I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that, where a non-dom has a family trust or some...

Geraint Davies | 630 c742 (Link to this contribution)

In terms of tax planning, a merchant banker or whatever in their twenties could plan to leave Bri...

Mel Stride | 630 c742 (Link to this contribution)

I think I have answered that question. It is probably time to move on.

Even with these prot...

Peter Dowd | 630 cc742-3 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) for referring to Plutarch, a Gree...

Anneliese Dodds | 630 c743 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 1, page 14, line 15, leave out “different” and insert “higher”.

Thi...

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster | 630 c743 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 2, page 14, leave out l...

Anneliese Dodds | 630 cc743-8 (Link to this contribution)

Labour’s amendments on redundancy payments focus: first, on ensuring that there is proper democra...

Anneliese Dodds | 630 c748 (Link to this contribution)

If I may finish, I will be more than happy to take an intervention.

To use an appropriate a...

Mel Stride | 630 c748 (Link to this contribution)

I simply wish to point out that, as I think the hon. Lady will know, the statutory instrument on ...

Anneliese Dodds | 630 cc748-9 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister’s point exemplifies exactly what I anticipated might happen. I was just about to say...

Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi | 630 c749 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does she agree that the watering down of injury to ...

Anneliese Dodds | 630 c749 (Link to this contribution)

The concern is that this could be part of a piece of a broader movement to erode some rights that...

Antoinette Sandbach | 630 c749 (Link to this contribution)

Some 85% of payments under the £30,000 threshold are not touched by these changes. Where there is...

Anneliese Dodds | 630 cc749-750 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her comments, but I must tell her that the consultation on the...

Mel Stride | 630 c750 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady asserts that those awards made by tribunals are not necessarily non-taxable, but th...

Anneliese Dodds | 630 c750 (Link to this contribution)

If we are talking about payments made for discrimination in the context of a redundancy payment, ...

Robert Jenrick | 630 c750 (Link to this contribution)

Just so that our constituents appreciate what is happening in the broader context, does the hon. ...

Anneliese Dodds | 630 cc750-1 (Link to this contribution)

Again, I would be very careful to separate out tribunal awards that are made in the context of di...

Kirsty Blackman | 630 c751 (Link to this contribution)

The House will be delighted to know that I do not intend to speak for very long. We have discusse...

Antoinette Sandbach | 630 c751 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady put in that category, for example, Fred Goodwin, who received a £2.7 million a...

Kirsty Blackman | 630 c751 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure that that was a redundancy payment that would be counted in this category. I do not...

Jim Cunningham | 630 c751 (Link to this contribution)

The coalition had the chance to do something about Sir Fred Goodwin. Does the hon. Lady agree?

Kirsty Blackman | 630 c751 (Link to this contribution)

That was before my time in this House. I am not sure what power Parliament would have had regardi...

Ellie Reeves | 630 cc751-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak once again in the debate about the taxation of termina...

Jim Cunningham | 630 c752 (Link to this contribution)

The previous Conservative Government changed the redundancy legislation. The purpose of redundanc...

Ellie Reeves | 630 c752 (Link to this contribution)

We know that redundancy payments and the way in which they are capped means that they often do no...

Eddie Hughes | 630 c752 (Link to this contribution)

Even given the fact that, as the hon. Lady said, the threshold has not increased for some time, i...

Ellie Reeves | 630 c752 (Link to this contribution)

The amount should reflect someone’s loss of earnings, their ability to get back on their feet and...

Ellie Reeves | 630 c753 (Link to this contribution)

I will make some progress.

It seems curious that the Government want to make it a priority ...

Mel Stride | 630 cc753-4 (Link to this contribution)

Following our vigorous and constructive debate during the Committee of the whole House last month...

Jonathan Reynolds | 630 c754 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 7, page 78, line 19, after “day”, insert

“no earlier than 1 January...

Lindsay Hoyle | 630 cc754-761 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 8, page 78, line 20, at...

Jonathan Reynolds | 630 cc761-2 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak to amendments 7 to 11, which relate to the Government’s Making Tax Digital propos...

Mel Stride | 630 cc762-3 (Link to this contribution)

Government amendments 12 to 16 fix a small technical error that could otherwise result in an outc...

Nigel Mills | 630 c763 (Link to this contribution)

At a Public Accounts Committee sitting last week on the future customs border and the software up...

Mel Stride | 630 c763 (Link to this contribution)

Of course there are a number of HMRC-led IT programmes; making tax digital is but one of them. A ...

Jim McMahon | 630 c763 (Link to this contribution)

Has the Minister spoken to his colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions, who are embark...

Mel Stride | 630 cc763-5 (Link to this contribution)

As that programme relates to DWP, the question would be best directed in that direction, but I

Nigel Mills | 630 c765 (Link to this contribution)

I commend to the Minister the better solution to this issue: making the online marketplaces thems...

Mel Stride | 630 c765 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend rightly raises one of the approaches that could be deployed to ensure that VAT is ...

Kirsty Blackman | 630 cc765-6 (Link to this contribution)

I think we are all slightly bamboozled by the order in which this part of the debate has happened...

Stella Creasy | 630 cc766-8 (Link to this contribution)

As it is Halloween, I rise to give the Minister a fright, because if he thinks he is going to get...

Jim McMahon | 630 c768 (Link to this contribution)

We are told time after time that we should live within our means and that our public services wil...

Stella Creasy | 630 cc768-9 (Link to this contribution)

Spoken like a true former local authority leader who has had to deal with the consequences of Gov...

Mel Stride | 630 cc769-770 (Link to this contribution)

It is pleasure to appear before you for my second appearance, Madam Deputy Speaker.

To pick...

Stella Creasy | 630 c770 (Link to this contribution)

I make it clear that I am not making advances to the Minister; I am making arguments to him. Let ...

Mel Stride | 630 c770 (Link to this contribution)

I have already conceded that point. We are looking at this, which rather trumps any questions abo...

Jim McMahon | 630 c770 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to hear that the Government are looking at this important issue, and I congratulate ...

Mel Stride | 630 c770 (Link to this contribution)

It is not a question of publishing information on every area we look into, but I have made it cle...

Mel Stride | 630 c770 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way one last time. We went through this at considerable length in Committee.

Stella Creasy | 630 c770 (Link to this contribution)

I disagree with the words “at considerable length.” I am grateful to the Minister for trying to e...

Mel Stride | 630 cc770-1 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, we are looking at this and we will continue to do so. I have carefully considered...

Jonathan Reynolds | 630 c771 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mel Stride | 630 cc771-781 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

The work of HMRC, though typically...

Peter Dowd | 630 cc781-2 (Link to this contribution)

The Finance Bill that is before the House is nothing short of a wasted opportunity. It is indicat...

Kirsty Blackman | 630 cc782-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am delighted to be in the Chamber to talk about the second of the three Finance Bills we will h...

Stewart Hosie | 630 c783 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes the interesting point that this is not simply about making a change for the ...

Kirsty Blackman | 630 cc783-4 (Link to this contribution)

That is absolutely the case, and I thank my hon. Friend for highlighting this point. It is very i...

Subjects

Legislation

Finance Bill 2017-19
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