Trade Union Bill

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that in the run-up to Christmas, people will be engaging electronic...

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. Perhaps it is because Conservative Members fear the ine...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree with Electoral Reform Services, which has run more than 2,000 ballo...

I agree, and that evidence came out in Committee.

Workplace balloting is an available secur...

The issue is not about online safety and security: the Government hope that people will not be bo...

I do, and one of the increasing problems with postal balloting is the number of post boxes, which...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Bill risks throwing away much of the positive industrial r...

I agree with the hon. Lady. Without question, the Bill is ideological. Under a veneer of moderati...

The hon. Gentleman keeps saying that the Bill is ideological. Is it ideological for people who se...

The problem with that analysis is that it is based on ignorance. The simple fact is that if a bal...

The contribution from the hon. Member for Hertsmere (Oliver Dowden) highlights the lack of unders...

It also shows complete ignorance of the principle of solidarity. Many of the people who are affec...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the average time lost to strike action last year was less than...

Yes, and that evidence also came out in Committee. What is the great industrial chaos in this cou...

Will the hon. Gentleman give way again?

For entertainment purposes, I will take another intervention from the hon. Gentleman.

I shall try to entertain the hon. Gentleman. If he believes that turnout is so high for all these...

What was your vote? You wouldn’t have been elected.

Order. No shouting out. If Members want to intervene, they should stand up and do so.

I will give the hon. Member for Hertsmere the benefit of my trade union experience. In localised ...

The point about commuters was made earlier, although the hon. Member for Hertsmere (Oliver Dowden...

That is right.

If the genuine motivation behind the Bill was to get turnout as high as possible, would not the G...

I agree, and that is why we have tabled the new clause. If the Government were so concerned about...

The hon. Gentleman is being very generous in taking interventions. Does he agree that trade union...

Yes, with my trade union experience I do agree with that. I would happily say that the best educa...

As has been said, my hon. Friend is being very generous with his time. He will agree that very im...

Indeed. I look forward to that test when the experiment, as I think Mr Speaker described it, take...

The hon. Gentleman and I have shared many an anecdote about this, both in Committee and elsewhere...

The hon. Gentleman is right. I found it curious that when I googled my name I got a link to his w...

I rise to speak to new clauses 5, 6, 7 and 9. In overall terms and despite the heat coming out of...

The hon. Gentleman refers to intimidation when people cast their ballot. Does he have any real ex...

I am not here to accuse anyone. If the hon. Lady thinks that the 1984 legislation was introduced ...

The hon. Gentleman talks about intimidation in the workplace. He is a lawyer. Let us have some ev...

As I said before, we are looking at the optimum way of voting. The Opposition’s new clause 9 prov...

I declare an interest as a member of the Musicians Union and Unite, and I draw the House’s attent...

This oppressive Bill will particularly affect women, as three quarters of trade union members are...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I well remember as a young boy how my mother’s trade union he...

Talking about women, who do we seriously think is most affected when schools close because of bal...

I take it, then, that the hon. Gentleman wants higher turnouts in ballots and so will be supporti...

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the worst aspects of the Bill is that it is being applied r...

I will not test your patience, Madam Deputy Speaker, by straying from the amendments, but my hon....

The Government have often used the rhetoric of fairness in trying to conceal their savage attack ...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and she will have a chance to develop her point further when ...

The hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) talked about people voting in the safety of their ow...

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of course, workplace ballots take place all the time, a...

I agree that this is a terrible attack on trade unions and their rights, but we also have not yet...

My hon. Friend is right. This is just what Tory Governments do, regardless of the evidence. They ...

The hon. Gentleman says he does not have enough time, but how could he come to this place today h...

There were many amendments in Committee, but I think the hon. Gentleman will find there is not en...

Does my hon. Friend agree that there has not been a single case of fraud in online or workplace b...

My hon. Friend is right, and she probably also knows that most of those complaints about the cond...

My hon. Friend has noted that none of the reasonable amendments put forward by Labour and other M...

So much for the respect agenda, as my hon. Friend rightly points out.

Does my hon. Friend agree that those outside this place will look in bemusement at the argument t...

Precisely, and I shall develop that a little further in a few moments. Under our proposals, elect...

Does my hon. Friend agree that, as he said in Committee, the provisions in this Bill fly in the f...

My hon. Friend is right, and for some reason, that does not seem to matter to Ministers—

rose—

I had not quite finished the sentence, but I will give way to my parliamentary neighbour.

I thank my hon. Friend who is doing an excellent job as shadow Minister. He will know that I am t...

One is not allowed to use the word “hypocrisy” in this House, so “irony” was the correct word for...

My hon. Friend is being generous in giving way. He says there is no reason, but if we look back t...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is clearly one of the Government’s motivations behind th...

The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) managed to ascertain from the UK ...

I am coming on in a few moments to talk about the so-called respect agenda, and I hope that I wil...

Can the hon. Gentleman confirm that the Welsh Government will present a legislative consent motio...

I think that I would be equally guilty of arrogance were I to assume the role of devolved Ministe...

The Minister for Public Services, Leighton Andrews, made it clear in his oral evidence to the Sel...

I am always slightly nervous when I give way to my hon. Friend, because his expertise on all thes...

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way to me again. Is he aware that the Bill is opposed by th...

If that is the case, it does not surprise me, although it might surprise some Members. I should h...

Taken in conjunction with the Government’s wish to pull out of the Human Rights Act 1998 and the ...

I am sure that many of those human rights implications will be examined further in the other plac...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the “reserved powers” elements of the Bill show that the Gover...

The hon. Lady is absolutely right; I do not think that those provisions would be in the Bill if t...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the cuts in facility time, along with the employment tribunal char...

My hon. Friend is quite right. Other Members have also drawn attention to the degree to which the...

rose—

I will give way to my hon. Friend and neighbour.

Is my hon. Friend aware of any other cases in which the Government have retrospectively interfere...

My research may have been inadequate, but I have not come across any such examples. However, the ...

rose—

Oh! The hon. and learned Lady has an example.

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that when an employer and an employee enter into a contract, it is...

I understand the basis on which, under our law, it has, for more than 100 years, been possible to...

Does my hon. Friend agree that having facility time improves industrial relations in the workplac...

I agree; there is plenty of evidence that it saves money and facilitates good industrial relation...

Surely the biggest impact on individual contracts will be where it is written into employees’ con...

The hon. Gentleman must be a mind-reader; I am coming on to that shortly.

rose—

I give way to the Chairman of the Select Committee, whose expertise it will be interesting to hea...

Following on from the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell)...

Yes, and they would be part of an industrial strategy if this Government believed in one, but ins...

Let me make a bit more progress, because I want other colleagues to have an opportunity to partic...

rose—

—but prior to moving on, I will give way to my right hon. Friend.

I rise to offer my hon. Friend support. Some 60 local councils and NHS organisations agree with t...

The leader of the council has put it succinctly and appropriately.

I have been both a shop steward and the leader of a council, so I have seen this from both sides....

If it was felt there had been abuse in some areas, that could be dealt with, but to legislate to ...

The point is that under the law, a human resources director of a large company would still have t...

As ever, my hon. Friend brings his vast experience of these matters to bear in the debate.

...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, when many organisations already make provision for payroll de...

I have to disagree with the hon. Lady: it is a tragedy rather than a farce that the Government ar...

My hon. Friend has already punched holes in the figure of £6 million and the calculations that un...

I do indeed. My hon. Friend represents an area that has many trade union members, and he is absol...

Some councils actually make money from check-off arrangements. One or two examples have been give...

The hon. Gentleman is right. As I have said, he has put his finger on the matter in his amendment...

I, too, disagree slightly with the shadow Minister: I do not think this is a tragedy; I think it ...

I am not going to escalate our dispute as to whether this is a farce, a tragedy or simply siniste...

In Committee, we raised this issue about other things that can be collected centrally by an HR de...

It is entirely appropriate from time to time for payroll to be used in this way. Often, members p...

Does my hon. Friend agree that this further complicates the situation in the health environment w...

My hon. Friend highlights the lack of thought, consultation and proper scrutiny that has gone int...

Trade unions play an important role in protecting the rights of employees: through their collecti...

rose—

I ask the hon. Lady to let me develop my argument a little further. First, those who suffer most ...

That legislation was brought in during Baroness Thatcher’s period of Government. Is the hon. and ...

The legislation that we have at any time must reflect the position of the country at the time. Th...

I will not give way, as I wish to press on.

I was not a member of the Bill Committee, but I...

I am sure my hon. and learned Friend will agree that those people will be among the most vulnerab...

That is absolutely right. When there are strikes, the people who suffer are the low paid workers ...

I will not give way, as I want to continue.

Although it may be possible to increase methods...

Will the hon. and learned Lady give way?

I am about to finish.

The vote taken by the union will not garner public support and public...

This is a Bill that nobody has asked for and that nobody wants. Even the latest polls in the nati...

A good friend of mine, a local community activist in my constituency, is very proud of her roots....

There is no doubt about that. I fully concur with my hon. Friend about the impact this will have ...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the tone of this debate is very similar to that on working tax cre...

I fully agree and hope to develop that point.

This is the gagging Bill, part 2. It is about...

My hon. Friend is right about the way that people are being treated at work, but the other disgra...

Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes an excellent point about the Bill’s provisions on opting in to, ...

My hon. Friend is making a powerful point. I cannot help reflecting on the comments of the hon. a...

We are in a time when more than a million people, most of them in work, are claiming family tax c...

The hon. Gentleman has slightly widened the debate, with tax credits and so on. He talks about us...

That comment would give me the opportunity, if the Deputy Speaker were to allow it, to diversify ...

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that 788,000 days were lost last year in strike action, at a time ...

If that is the figure, so be it, but in every case industrial action would have been taken throug...

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. The hon. and learned Member for South East Cambridg...

I fully accept that. If we want to talk about productivity, we need to look at that, instead of t...

Days have been lost through industrial action because the negotiators, whether that is the Mayor ...

I entirely agree. As I said earlier, does anybody want this Bill? Has anybody asked for it? Even ...

The Minister just said that the Tories voted for it at the last election. You did not declare tha...

Order. First of all, I am not responsible. I want to clear that up. [Interruption.] No, “you” ref...

That is absolutely correct, Mr Deputy Speaker. I think the reason my hon. Friend spoke in the way...

The hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) pointed out that that self-same witness h...

This individual, who runs a private health organisation the length and breadth of the UK, was ask...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the existence of facility time is beneficial to the good running o...

Absolutely. Many, many papers have been presented by professors, doctors and other experts with r...

When I was a council leader employing thousands of staff, facility time was given to cope with al...

I agree with my hon. Friend’s sentiments. If the Government start to decide how much, or how litt...

The hon. Gentleman has been talking about the time we are in. It is pretty clear, as I understand...

I do not recognise the words of the hon. Gentleman, who usually addresses issues in a much more p...

On protecting the public, we ought to remember that when we fought in this place to ban hunting w...

That is a fair point, well made by my hon. Friend.

There are lot of examples of e-balloting...

What kind of society are we moving towards when, under the proposed 50% and 40% threshold rule, a...

That is absolutely correct and spot on.

I will very briefly mention one other issue. The Co...

I will speak primarily to amendments 15, 16 and 21, tabled by the Scottish National party, which ...

You have made that illegal, haven’t you?

Well, he gave me an invitation.

I must confess that there are many parts of the Bill on whi...

Too often, we hear Labour Members talk about the inconvenience of a strike. In fact, a strike can...

My hon. Friend puts his point very well.

I would remind the House that when we took evidenc...

The hon. Gentleman has commented a few times about the fury of commuters. I understand that compl...

No, I am not saying that. If the strike took place with the strong support that has to be achieve...

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Bill does not ban or prohibit strikes, but ensures that the hu...

My hon. Friend puts it extremely well.

I finish with this point. The hon. Member for Wansbe...

rose—

Has the hon. Gentleman given way or finished? We need to get this right.

I am happy to take this point.

I need to clarify the point about Len McCluskey. Unite the union suggested that discussions shoul...

I thought it was fair to give way to the hon. Gentleman, given that I had mentioned him a couple ...

On Second Reading, I asked a question to which I have had no answer to date. Quite simply, what p...

When giving evidence to the Bill Committee, the general secretary of the Union of Shop, Distribut...

I agree wholeheartedly and my experience all my working life, as both employer and employee, indi...

I am proud to declare my interests in relation to the trade union movement. I am glad that the ho...

We have heard fierce argument in Committee and today from those who would seek to exclude some ar...

As the Minister will be aware, this Bill does not apply to Northern Ireland because these issues ...

I am sorry we were not able to hear from the hon. Gentleman directly, because I am sure he has mu...

Several private bus companies in Chester have recently withdrawn rural services, which is inconve...

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that those people have alternative services, and where they do h...

The Minister talks about unions being organised on a geographical basis. Does that mean that the ...

The hon. Gentleman, with whom I have had very lively and enjoyable debates in Committee, knows th...

My hon. Friend has spoken about problems with processes, but we are talking about some of the mos...

I want to say to trade union leaders that when they can overcome the objections listed not by me,...

I thank Members who have contributed to this debate. I have been struck by three things. I say ge...

Order.

I am summing up, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I am going to stop you in a second, so you need to say whether you want to withdraw the amendment...

Okay, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

I beg to move amendment 6, page 4, line 31, leave out clause 9.

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 38, page 5, line 6, lea...

I must say I thought we won the last debate, but somehow or other we lost the vote. As Disraeli s...

Does my hon. Friend see the irony in the supposed party of free marketeers intervening in an agre...

Yes, I do. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I will come to that point when we discuss some of ...

Does the shadow Minister share my concern, which was also mentioned in evidence to the Bill Commi...

There is every likelihood of that happening, as was clearly revealed in the evidence given to the...

Perhaps it is regrettable that, having consulted on the matter, the Government have now withdrawn...

Indeed; the fact that they did not want it was clear from the evidence of the Police Federation i...

Does my hon. Friend agree that this Bill in effect creates two tiers of civil liberties and human...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about that. Why is it only trade unions that are being singled...

In the dispute at Northampton hospital, the pathologists were locked out of the lab and the trust...

They can make matters far worse. When we look at this proposal alongside clause 7, it becomes cle...

Has my hon. Friend also considered that in the long term the resentment that will be caused in th...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about that. He knows well, and Conservative Members ought to k...

The hon. Gentleman has anticipated the remarks that I would have made had I caught Mr Deputy Spea...

Clearly, the hon. Gentleman is as baffled as I am as to why the Government are going down this ro...

I am waiting for an intervention from a Government Member. Not even the hon. Member for Huntingdo...

Whom shall I choose from the Labour Benches? I shall choose my neighbour first.

There is also the absurdity that there are many other similar arrangements in place for charitabl...

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and gives further power to the point that I am making and the...

I noted that nobody on the Government Benches could help my hon. Friend with his question. The on...

Well, I am quite shocked by that accusation from my hon. Friend. On a serious note, there are man...

I know that in a former life the hon. Gentleman was a teacher, and he is making a very didactic c...

The hon. Gentleman is talking my language. I absolutely agree with that proposition, but has he r...

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way to a fellow Cardiff Catholic. He may recall that simila...

I am glad that trade unions are strongly supported in the Hoare house, but the hon. Gentleman sho...

Before I give way to hon. Friends, I shall give way to the hon. Member for Huntingdon because he ...

I can tell the hon. Gentleman that I have now looked at amendment 5, and in support of my hon. Fr...

The hon. Gentleman does not understand that trade unions are democratic organisations. They do th...

Does my hon. Friend remember the Prime Minister’s promise of a bonfire of red tape? Does he belie...

The so-called one regulation in, one regulation out rule—[Interruption.] Oh, it’s two out, is it?...

Does my hon. Friend agree that this move to end check-off discriminates against trade unions, as ...

Indeed. Other hon. Members have made that point and my hon. Friend is right to emphasise it.

Will my hon. Friend give way?

I will give way one last time, then I will try to conclude so that other hon. Members can speak.<...

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The intervention from the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr Jacks...

The hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) referred to our Catholic backgrounds, and my hon. ...

Many of the arrangements are contractual, so removing them would cost the employer a significant ...

So much for the party of business, imposing costs on businesses that have entered into voluntary ...

The Trade Union Bill was my first experience of sitting on a Public Bill Committee. Our sessions ...

Is the hon. Lady aware of the letter that the Prime Minister sent to Ministers only days ago—it w...

I am not aware of that letter, although I am aware that there is a debate on the issue. I am talk...

The hon. Lady talks a great deal about human rights and the European convention. Can she help me ...

I would like, with your leave, Mr Deputy Speaker, to finish my point and come on to armbands late...

The hon. Lady referred to article 11(2), which sets out the circumstances in which the right of f...

I do not believe that the wearing of a badge or armband, or some other means of identification, i...

rose—

I am going to finish, if I may.

This seems to be an entirely reasonable and, more important...

I must declare an interest as a member of Unite the union and a proud union representative for 14...

Does my hon. Friend agree that part of the difficulty is that the current penalty for an employer...

I agree with my hon. Friend. It is also extremely important with regard to safety, including that...

Would it not be better for this Government to value the work of our public sector workers in part...

I agree with my hon. Friend. Workers who feel valued are much more likely to increase productivit...

Depending on the union, unions can have several political funds. For example, Unison does, which ...

Don’t forget COHSE.

They amalgamated with the Confederation of Health Service Employees, as my hon. Friend says. The ...

The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. I would add that we heard testimony from witnesses i...

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to place it on the record that I am a member of Unite the...

We are extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman. It falls to each Member to declare his or her in...

I rise to speak to amendment 5, which appears in my name and those of my hon. Friends the Members...

I support amendment 5 because it is my understanding that local authorities and other such organi...

Yes, and they do. As I mentioned in an intervention on the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Br...

The hon. Gentleman makes a convincing and measured case, and I have looked closely at the wording...

I will wait to hear what the Minister says. He is an extremely reasonable person and there are ot...

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there are echoes in that speech of the Transparency of Lobbyin...

I respect the hon. Lady but I do not entirely agree with her. I would be interested to see whethe...

I declare an interest as a proud member of Community union. I represent the south Wales constitue...

When senior police officers are warning that neighbourhood policing is under threat, is it right ...

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. We hear a lot from Conservative Members about smart governm...

rose—

Order. Before I call the hon. Gentleman, I would say to him that I wish to call the Minister at, ...

Thank you for squeezing me in, Mr Speaker.

Given the Opposition’s comments at various stage...

To wind up the debate I call the Minister, Mr Nicholas Edward Coleridge Boles.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to support Government amendments 2, 3 and 4, and to resist Oppositi...

Will the Minister do the same with the shareholders of companies that give money to the Tory part...

I am sorry, Mr Speaker; I will give the hon. Gentleman another go, because I had another message ...

Will the Minister give that opportunity to shareholders in big companies that give money to the T...

As you will be aware, Mr Speaker, and as I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware, any donations by ...

Is the Minister aware that the general secretary of Unison—the largest trade union in the public ...

I am aware of that, because I was in the Committee, and the general secretary of Unison is an unf...

I fully understand the Minister’s point, but in that case, why not let them choose whether to do ...

I understand my hon. Friend’s argument, but of course the choice would be made by the employer an...

I just wish to confirm that we wish to push amendment 6 to a vote.

I am exceptionally grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I had rather anticipated that.

Quest...

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Have you had any indication of whether there will be a written o...

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. The short answer is that I have had n...

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I start by thanking all Members wh...

Is it not important to ensure that the Bill is properly targeted and looks to where there is genu...

I have already told my hon. Friend that I am happy to carry on talking to him about this as the B...

Will the Conservative Trade Unionists group, which the Minister mentioned, be able to join online...

I am tempted to say that they will have to buy a small donkey and write it on the side, but no, o...

As I did on Second Reading, let me begin by drawing the attention of the House to my entry in the...

Today we have heard, once again, divisive rhetoric against this country’s trade union movement. W...

It is an honour to speak on Third Reading. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Minister for Skills ...

My dad came here as a navvy from County Cork, joined the British Army to fight Hitler and then be...