UK Parliament / Open data

Psychoactive Substances Bill [Lords]

Debate on bills on Monday, 19 October 2015, in the House of Commons, led by Mike Penning. The answering member was Lyn Brown.
Second reading. Debate adjourned. Motion to proceed with the second reading until midnight. Agreed to on question. Debate resumed. Second reading agreed to on question. Programme motion. Agreed to on question.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

600 cc731-783 

Session

2015-16

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Second reading

Procedure

Programme motions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Psychoactive Substances Bill (HL) 2015-16. Brought from the Lords.
Tuesday, 21 July 2015
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

John Bercow | 600 c731 (Link to this contribution)

I inform Members that I have not selected the amendment.

7.54 pm

Mike Penning | 600 c731 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

It is an honour and a privilege tod...


Show all contributions (143)
Caroline Lucas | 600 c731 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has already said that some people in this House, although they do not like psychoact...

Mike Penning | 600 c731 (Link to this contribution)

I did not expect to be in confrontation with the hon. Lady so early on, but I think, yet again, t...

Mike Penning | 600 c732 (Link to this contribution)

I will make a bit of progress before we come back into confrontation.

Norman Lamb | 600 c732 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that the Minister accepts that those people who have concerns about this legislation have ...

Mike Penning | 600 c732 (Link to this contribution)

If I thought that was going to happen, I would not be standing at this Dispatch Box. It has not h...

Lady Hermon | 600 c732 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman will know from his experience in Northern Ireland that it is organised c...

Mike Penning | 600 c732 (Link to this contribution)

Under this legislation, the highest penalty for selling or purchasing these products—particularly...

Mike Penning | 600 c732 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, nutmeg and the scent of a flower. That would be complete and utter tosh. We will ensure that...

Keith Vaz | 600 c733 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister mentioned the Home Affairs Committee inquiry. In fact, the Government caught the Com...

Mike Penning | 600 c733 (Link to this contribution)

I look forward to the report, not least because of the excellent work that I know has been carrie...

Mike Penning | 600 c733 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I will give way once I have finished this part of my spe...

Kit Malthouse | 600 c733 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister mentioned amendments in the House of Lords and sentencing. He will know, because we ...

Mike Penning | 600 c733 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; we have corresponded on this matter. I have looked carefully ...

Lord Mann | 600 c734 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the Minister on the speed with which he has introduced this Bill. I have called fo...

Mike Penning | 600 c734 (Link to this contribution)

We want such places to close down before this Bill is passed. I want this House to send a message...

David Burrowes | 600 c734 (Link to this contribution)

I very much commend this Bill. I have been calling for it for many years. The Sentencing Council ...

Mike Penning | 600 c734 (Link to this contribution)

That important matter was put to me when I gave evidence to the Home Affairs Committee. The diffe...

David Simpson | 600 c734 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister outline for us just how this legislation will deal with those who sell or buy o...

Mike Penning | 600 c734 (Link to this contribution)

It will be just the same as if a person went to a head shop. It is illegal. The National Crime Ag...

Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh | 600 c735 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the fact that the Government have worked with the Scottish Government on this issue of ...

Mike Penning | 600 c735 (Link to this contribution)

The Scottish Government were working on this matter long before I became the Minister. It was a r...

Andrew Stephenson | 600 c735 (Link to this contribution)

When I raised this matter on my Facebook page yesterday asking for the views of young people in m...

Mike Penning | 600 c735 (Link to this contribution)

I can confirm that. There are uses for some of these drugs within industry, and we want that to c...

Stephen Phillips | 600 c735 (Link to this contribution)

Further to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Pendle (Andrew Stephenson), it seems t...

Mike Penning | 600 cc735-6 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. and learned Friend has studied the Bill and I have worked with him on other Bills, so I k...

Caroline Lucas | 600 c736 (Link to this contribution)

If the Irish ban has been so successful, why has the lifetime prevalence of the use of novel psyc...

Mike Penning | 600 c736 (Link to this contribution)

The answer is no, because I do not want any more deaths, which will happen if we hold back now an...

Mike Penning | 600 c736 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady shouts across the Chamber from a sedentary position, but she has not brought the Ch...

Mike Penning | 600 c736 (Link to this contribution)

I will not give way—actually, I will. Has the hon. Lady been to the Republic of Ireland and spoke...

Caroline Lucas | 600 c736 (Link to this contribution)

I have not spoken to them directly, but I have evidence in my hand that tells me that the prevale...

Mike Penning | 600 c736 (Link to this contribution)

So, the answer to my question was no, and the hon. Lady has not been to the Republic of Ireland a...

Paul Flynn | 600 c736 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister tell us the effect of the ban on khat? The reports are that its use continues, b...

Mike Penning | 600 c737 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that many individuals in this House could pick on individual substances that have gone ...

Steve Brine | 600 c737 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister mentions the word “possession”. The word “prisons” appears on the face of the Bill o...

Mike Penning | 600 c737 (Link to this contribution)

I have received a large number of delegations that have made arguments about the effect on the pr...

Anne McLaughlin | 600 c737 (Link to this contribution)

My understanding was that those who would be criminalised by the Bill were those who were supplyi...

Mike Penning | 600 c737 (Link to this contribution)

The spirit of the Bill is that we do not want to criminalise individuals for possession, but we a...

Mike Penning | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady asked me a question, and I will answer it. In Committee, we will study the Bill lin...

Anne McLaughlin | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

So, is the Minister saying that purchasing will be criminalised, but not use? As I understand it,...

Mike Penning | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

I do not understand this argument, and I do not know whether the shadow Minister does. If someone...

Pete Wishart | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

If you get it for free, is that all right?

Mike Penning | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes a comment when he is not even in the Chamber—he should know better, as h...

Lyn Brown | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

I am a little confused by the diversion from where I thought we were going. Would not a purchaser...

Mike Penning | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

That is exactly the situation, and that is exactly what the Bill says. I do not understand the di...

Mike Penning | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

Several Members wish to intervene, but I want to provide opportunities for other Members to make ...

Mark Pawsey | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

If this is about people knowing that the products are illegal, can the Minister tell us a little ...

Mike Penning | 600 c738 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point. As I said earlier, this is only one part of a campaign t...

Stephen Phillips | 600 cc738-9 (Link to this contribution)

I confess to the Minister—I am trying to help—that I am a little confused as well. I do not think...

Mike Penning | 600 c739 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise if I have confused hon. Members. Let me try again. There are relevant provisions: pro...

Mike Weir | 600 c739 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for that. I support the Bill, but I am slightly concerned about clause 8, wh...

Mike Penning | 600 c739 (Link to this contribution)

That is not the Bill’s intention. As we go through the Bill in Committee we will endeavour to iro...

Mike Penning | 600 c739 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way once more, then I will wind up.

Dan Poulter | 600 c739 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is very generous. Does he agree that there is a particular challenge in dealing with...

Mike Penning | 600 c740 (Link to this contribution)

That is exactly the point, and it is important that we close any loopholes, but there are no inte...

Mike Penning | 600 c740 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way once more, but then I will wind up, as Members wish to speak in the debate.

Norman Lamb | 600 c740 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister. To follow up the point made by Scottish National party Members, wi...

Mike Penning | 600 c740 (Link to this contribution)

The logic is to try to stop dealers bringing stuff in through websites. That is close to the legi...

Lyn Brown | 600 cc740-2 (Link to this contribution)

The Opposition support the principles of the Bill. The 2015 Labour manifesto included a commitmen...

Stephen Phillips | 600 c741 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady share my concern, which we need to consider when we think about the Bill, that...

Lyn Brown | 600 cc741-3 (Link to this contribution)

I accept what the hon. and learned Gentleman says, but one of the things I find particularly repu...

Philippa Whitford | 600 c743 (Link to this contribution)

This aspect did not go to the Advisory Committee on the Misuse of Drugs and has therefore been pu...

Lyn Brown | 600 cc743-4 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is absolutely right; I completely and utterly agree. Education is the key to this. ...

Mike Penning | 600 c744 (Link to this contribution)

I raised this issue with the Minister in Ireland, where local authorities and others can use the ...

Lyn Brown | 600 c744 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for that assurance. If the ban pushes supply away from the high str...

Paul Flynn | 600 c745 (Link to this contribution)

The European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction in Lisbon has reported that the lifet...

Lyn Brown | 600 c745 (Link to this contribution)

I have only been in this job for two weeks, but if I had been in it for a bit longer and the Publ...

Norman Lamb | 600 c745 (Link to this contribution)

I will not take that groan personally. To follow up on the intervention by the hon. Member for Ne...

Lyn Brown | 600 c745 (Link to this contribution)

I genuinely think that Ireland is much more comparable to us than Poland. However, I do not think...

Lyn Brown | 600 c745 (Link to this contribution)

No, I will make some progress.

Lord Mann | 600 c745 (Link to this contribution)

Before my hon. Friend continues, is she aware of the recent evidence from Ireland showing that th...

Lyn Brown | 600 cc745-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thought I had said that, but I obviously did not say it well enough. However, I thank my hon. F...

Stephen Phillips | 600 c746 (Link to this contribution)

A point that may not have occurred to the hon. Lady arises from the two points that she has put t...

Lyn Brown | 600 c746 (Link to this contribution)

I am clearly being far too subtle. I am not often accused of that. I talked about resources and c...

Mike Penning | 600 c746 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps I was a bit too subtle as well, because I think I said that we would do that.

Lyn Brown | 600 c746 (Link to this contribution)

We are not often accused of that, are we?

Lyn Brown | 600 c746 (Link to this contribution)

In conclusion, the Opposition want the best possible Bill so that young people are not exposed to...

Natascha Engel | 600 c747 (Link to this contribution)

Order. We have calculated that with 17 Members wishing to catch the eye of the Chair, it works ou...

Steve Brine | 600 cc747-750 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the shadow Minister. I very much enjoyed her subtly constructive contr...

Paul Flynn | 600 c749 (Link to this contribution)

How will the Bill reduce the prevalence of Spice in prisons, when all illegal drugs are freely av...

Steve Brine | 600 cc749-751 (Link to this contribution)

I have already talked, in exchanges with those on the Front Bench, about amendments I would like ...

Anne McLaughlin | 600 c751 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to offer the Scottish National party’s tentative support for the Bill to proceed to the ne...

Jim Shannon | 600 c752 (Link to this contribution)

An organisation called FASA, which is doing some great work in my constituency, has indicated to ...

Anne McLaughlin | 600 c752 (Link to this contribution)

I will always support treating drug use as a health issue above anything else, so obviously I wou...

Jim Shannon | 600 c753 (Link to this contribution)

I do not want to let this subject pass. The Republic of Ireland has very clear legislation with a...

Anne McLaughlin | 600 cc753-5 (Link to this contribution)

I think the legislation in the Republic of Ireland is interesting. It is one of a number of count...

Dan Poulter | 600 cc755-7 (Link to this contribution)

I rise to speak in favour of the Bill. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow Nor...

Norman Lamb | 600 cc757-8 (Link to this contribution)

I should say at the start that I am instinctively hostile to drugs and their excessive use, be th...

Steve Brine | 600 c758 (Link to this contribution)

I do not mean this unkindly and I realise that the Lib Dems are moving on from the manifesto on w...

Norman Lamb | 600 cc758-9 (Link to this contribution)

I would have to check that. All I want to do is say what I believe, which is ultimately what we s...

Lord Mann | 600 c759 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman, like a few others, is making a great play about this Lisbon-based European mo...

Norman Lamb | 600 c759 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman might be right—I thank him for his intervention—but that does not in any way u...

Lord Mann | 600 c759 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Norman Lamb | 600 c759 (Link to this contribution)

Let me make this point, as I am conscious that other people, perhaps including the hon. Gentleman...

Lord Mann | 600 c760 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman cited Poland, but did not reference his source. He is now cites evidence from ...

Norman Lamb | 600 c760 (Link to this contribution)

Rather than dealing with the accusation that the hon. Gentleman makes, my concern is to encourage...

Julian Sturdy | 600 cc760-1 (Link to this contribution)

It is a privilege to be called to speak in this important debate. I join many right hon. and hon....

Paul Flynn | 600 cc761-2 (Link to this contribution)

I had the distressing experience of hearing the evidence to the Home Affairs Committee, particula...

David Burrowes | 600 cc762-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I very much welcome the Bill.

...
David Burrowes | 600 cc764-5 (Link to this contribution)

Attempting to prove the behavioural impact of cannabis on fitness to drive is subjective and can ...

Lord Mann | 600 cc765-7 (Link to this contribution)

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes), particula...

Lord Mann | 600 c767 (Link to this contribution)

No, it’s not rubbish; it’s factual.

My message to the Government and the message of those i...

Caroline Lucas | 600 c767 (Link to this contribution)

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I was only just walking in when he started talking about Brighton, P...

Lord Mann | 600 c767 (Link to this contribution)

I have done my homework and I can tell you that it is a place where heroin deaths are going up. T...

Lord Mann | 600 cc767-8 (Link to this contribution)

Talk to those who have been on heroin in my area and see what it is doing to them, their lives, t...

Caroline Lucas | 600 c768 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The way that the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann)...

Natascha Engel | 600 c768 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for that point of order, but things are getting a little heated. She was ma...

Lord Mann | 600 c768 (Link to this contribution)

The speech is now complete.

10.16 pm

Andrew Stephenson | 600 cc768-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann). I hope to make a short cont...

Carolyn Harris | 600 cc769-771 (Link to this contribution)

We can call these things what we like—legal highs, new psychoactive substances, NPSs, lethal high...

Owen Thompson | 600 cc771-2 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. I join my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow No...

Christian Matheson | 600 cc772-3 (Link to this contribution)

I warmly welcome the Bill, and I can say with a fair degree of confidence that many of my Chester...

Mike Penning | 600 c773 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for intervening—I know that my colleagues would like to go home—but I think that the ...

Christian Matheson | 600 c774 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely understand the Minister’s point. As I said earlier, I believe that the Bill will put...

Gavin Robinson | 600 cc774-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to have an opportunity to participate in this debate. It is important to focus on wh...

Mike Penning | 600 c775 (Link to this contribution)

This is why we have given such wide-ranging powers to trading standards in the legislation. When ...

Gavin Robinson | 600 c775 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister.

Before I touch on our experience in Belfast, I want to menti...

Mike Penning | 600 c775 (Link to this contribution)

Let’s just knock this one on the head once and for all. I have written to all the bishops to tell...

Gavin Robinson | 600 c775 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you very much, Minister. I am sure that the bishops will be delighted. That is a positive n...

Jim Shannon | 600 c775 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is far too modest to tell the House that he was involved in the legislative change...

Gavin Robinson | 600 c776 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, although he did not give me the opportunity to be modest or othe...

Stuart C McDonald | 600 cc776-7 (Link to this contribution)

I will be as quick as I can, Mr Deputy Speaker. Like my colleagues, I support the Second Reading ...

David Burrowes | 600 c777 (Link to this contribution)

I believe the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee wanted to make it clear that we know people are...

Stuart C McDonald | 600 cc777-8 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. I do not intend to give away any of our conclusions or the recommendations we are goi...

Andrew Gwynne | 600 cc778-780 (Link to this contribution)

First, let me thank right hon. and hon. Members for contributing to this good debate. I wish to t...

Andrew Selous | 600 cc780-2 (Link to this contribution)

We have had an excellent debate this evening and I am grateful to all Members who have taken part...

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