UK Parliament / Open data

Access to Medical Treatments (Innovation) Bill

Debate on bills on Friday, 16 October 2015, in the House of Commons, led by Chris Heaton-Harris. The answering member was George Freeman.
Motion that the House sit in private. Negatived on division (0 to 42). Second reading. Agreed to on division (32 to 19).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

600 cc557-613 

Session

2015-16

Department

Department of Health

Legislative stage

Second reading

Procedure

Motions to sit in private
Private members' bills proceedings

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Access to Medical Treatments (Innovation) Bill 2015-16
Wednesday, 24 June 2015
Bills
House of Commons
Deposited Paper DEP2016-0003
Tuesday, 27 October 2015
Deposited papers
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c558 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Not a day goes by without those pra...

David Nuttall | 600 c558 (Link to this contribution)

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the doctor in that particular case would have had to obtain his ...


Show all contributions (119)
Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c558 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that the decision was taken while the patient was unconscious, but there would then hav...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c559 (Link to this contribution)

Would my hon. Friend accept that such a database could be set up anyway, without this Bill, and t...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c559 (Link to this contribution)

I shall come to that point in a moment.

When this idea was introduced during the passage of...

Edward Leigh | 600 c559 (Link to this contribution)

I am not opposed to my hon. Friend’s Bill, which he is presenting in a very effective way, but I ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c559 (Link to this contribution)

I will continue, if my hon. Friend will allow me, because in the depths of my speech I shall come...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c559 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has quoted a number of organisations. Does he accept that all those organisations ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 cc559-560 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to think I am making the point that although we all recognise that we need to encour...

Wendy Morton | 600 c560 (Link to this contribution)

I am no clinician, but I am a patient, like many of us here. In today’s world, where we so often ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c560 (Link to this contribution)

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. The only surprise is that such a database of innovation d...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c560 (Link to this contribution)

I asked the House of Commons Library whether the Secretary of State has this power already, and i...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c560 (Link to this contribution)

I am not sure I do. I would like to think that this Bill completely clarifies how this database c...

David Nuttall | 600 c561 (Link to this contribution)

Is it the case that the introduction of the database into this Bill is really in response to the ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 cc561-2 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely, my hon. Friend is completely right.

The Minister will be pleased to hear that I...

Andrew Bingham | 600 c562 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making quite a powerful case. I do not wish to dwell on his receding hairline, ...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c562 (Link to this contribution)

I am not particularly worried about what is going on up top, but what I would envisage is that if...

Edward Leigh | 600 c562 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend and I are fellow Conservatives and we have battled over the years to stop more and...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 cc562-5 (Link to this contribution)

There are many elements to this genuine concern. My hon. Friend was the Chairman of the Public Ac...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c565 (Link to this contribution)

As with any book, we should not judge a Bill by its cover. All Members want to improve access to ...

Christopher Chope | 600 c565 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend refers to the power of the Secretary of State to set up a system. When does she ex...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 cc565-6 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Principally, there are issues with funding and complexity. The...

Bob Stewart | 600 c566 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend—a good friend—for giving way. Does she believe that there is no place for ...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 cc566-7 (Link to this contribution)

As my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry pointed out, many of these bodies would like to have su...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c567 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is surely making the case for the database because successes and failures would ha...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c567 (Link to this contribution)

I must say that I do not think my hon. Friend understands how this works. Companies will simply d...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c568 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend will know—in fact, we had a meeting about this just before the Bill was first draf...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c568 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that I disagree. My hon. Friend’s Bill would not allow us to learn from failure. We l...

Heidi Alexander | 600 cc568-570 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) on securing a place in the priv...

Bob Stewart | 600 c570 (Link to this contribution)

I presume that one fundamental reason why such bodies are against the Bill is that they are conce...

Heidi Alexander | 600 cc570-1 (Link to this contribution)

I think that is broadly the point, but it also goes back to what the hon. Member for Totnes said ...

Dennis Skinner | 600 c571 (Link to this contribution)

It is on this very subject that I am interested. I have had treatment for cancer and a heart bypa...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c571 (Link to this contribution)

I am keen to find a way for doctors to innovate, but to do so using safe and effective treatments...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c571 (Link to this contribution)

To allay that concern, the Bill states that nothing in it would override existing common law. All...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c572 (Link to this contribution)

The Bill would just confuse matters. The alternative approach outlined in the Bill would create u...

Philip Davies | 600 cc572-3 (Link to this contribution)

I start by welcoming you to the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is an absolute pleasure to speak ...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c573 (Link to this contribution)

That is an entirely separate issue. Admitting when a mistake has been made is entirely separate f...

Philip Davies | 600 c573 (Link to this contribution)

I am rather surprised, given my hon. Friend’s background, that she has such little faith in docto...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c573 (Link to this contribution)

Of course the overwhelming majority of the profession does behave responsibly, but the whole poin...

Philip Davies | 600 cc573-4 (Link to this contribution)

I take my hon. Friend’s point. She is an expert in her field in a way that I am not, and I certai...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c574 (Link to this contribution)

I fully admit that there are a number of critics of the Bill, but not so many critics of the cent...

Philip Davies | 600 c574 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. A Second Reading is, of course, a debate of a Bill in pri...

Philip Davies | 600 c575 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot understand how it could be both, but perhaps my hon. Friend will explain that for me.

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c575 (Link to this contribution)

On my hon. Friend’s first point about Cancer Research UK, let me be absolutely clear that it is o...

Philip Davies | 600 c575 (Link to this contribution)

I merely read out, word for word, Cancer Research UK’s response to the consultation; I can do no ...

Christopher Chope | 600 c575 (Link to this contribution)

If there is such widespread opposition to this Bill, why was it that the Saatchi Bill made such g...

Philip Davies | 600 c575 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend often asks me questions that I cannot answer. He has now asked another that I am n...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c575 (Link to this contribution)

The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges robustly rejects this Bill. Like me, it supports the intent...

Philip Davies | 600 c575 (Link to this contribution)

I am perfectly happy for people to put their own gloss on what others are saying. That is their r...

Philip Davies | 600 c575 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make some progress, but I will give way again to my hon. Friend.

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c575 (Link to this contribution)

I must take issue with my hon. Friend because he is quoting very selectively from the report. Whe...

Philip Davies | 600 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I do not deny that. If the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges wants to shy away from any part of w...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c576 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman clarify exactly what he is quoting from? Is he quoting from the consultat...

Philip Davies | 600 c576 (Link to this contribution)

I made it clear at the outset, but I am happy to make it clear again, that I am quoting from resp...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c576 (Link to this contribution)

The point is that we all support the aim of improving access to innovative treatments; we simply ...

Philip Davies | 600 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I think that my hon. Friend is slightly in danger of arguing against herself. She began her inter...

Philip Davies | 600 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I want to make some progress, but I will give way to my hon. Friend one final time.

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend. He is being very generous. Can he not see, though, that supporting the pr...

Philip Davies | 600 c577 (Link to this contribution)

It is not for me to advise other Members how to pursue their own agendas. My hon. Friend is a won...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c577 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that the Bill should go into Committee, because it is an evolution: it is a process tha...

Philip Davies | 600 cc577-8 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has made a very fair point.

I now want to say something about the medical in...

Bob Stewart | 600 c578 (Link to this contribution)

I came here to listen to my very good friend my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton...

Philip Davies | 600 c579 (Link to this contribution)

I take on board my hon. Friend’s point. It seems to me that he was subtly saying he had come to l...

Bob Stewart | 600 c579 (Link to this contribution)

I must intervene. I always come to listen to my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies...

Philip Davies | 600 c579 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is very kind, although it would have been rather better if he had not had to be pr...

Christopher Chope | 600 c579 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has not responded to the intervention of my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (...

Philip Davies | 600 cc579-581 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I have not heard anything so far today to suggest that the Bil...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c581 (Link to this contribution)

Those safeguards do exist. A doctor has to act responsibly, and if he does not do so, the full we...

Philip Davies | 600 cc581-3 (Link to this contribution)

I take my hon. Friend’s point, and we should recognise the work of the General Medical Council in...

Philip Davies | 600 c583 (Link to this contribution)

I was doing so well! However, I appear once again to have incurred the wrath of my hon. Friend.

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c583 (Link to this contribution)

Not the wrath; I just want to point out to my hon. Friend that he is quoting selectively from the...

Philip Davies | 600 c583 (Link to this contribution)

I am only quoting what the RCS has said. My hon. Friend might want to decry my statement, but the...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c584 (Link to this contribution)

Let me read some conclusions:

“we believe this law is unnecessary and potentially dangerous...

Philip Davies | 600 c584 (Link to this contribution)

That may well be that body’s conclusion as it stands, but my point is, as I have tried to make cl...

Philip Davies | 600 cc584-5 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely, this is too late for them. Therefore, patients may be willing to use innovative treat...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c585 (Link to this contribution)

What assessment has the hon. Gentleman made of the survey by the Royal College of Physicians on t...

Philip Davies | 600 cc585-6 (Link to this contribution)

When the survey says that employers are not allowing people to carry out the innovation, the shad...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c586 (Link to this contribution)

There tends to be an assumption in this debate that all innovation is a good thing. Some medical ...

Philip Davies | 600 c587 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that anyone would disagree with my hon. Friend. Everybody is concerned about patie...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c587 (Link to this contribution)

What my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) has to answer is what provision she woul...

Philip Davies | 600 cc587-8 (Link to this contribution)

I do not propose to be the central hub of a three-way conversation involving my hon. Friends. I a...

David Nuttall | 600 cc588-595 (Link to this contribution)

As always, it is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies)...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c595 (Link to this contribution)

I completely underline what my hon. Friend is saying. If a doctor is acting responsibly, they hav...

David Nuttall | 600 c595 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful that the sponsor of the Bill agrees with me on this, because it is the key point of...

Philip Davies | 600 c595 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is setting out a very good case. Does he accept, though, that the concerns of some...

David Nuttall | 600 c595 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The arguments are finely balanced. As he said, he has constituen...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c595 (Link to this contribution)

I assure my hon. Friend and all other Members who have spoken, and everybody I have been in consu...

David Nuttall | 600 cc595-6 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that my hon. Friend’s intervention will go some way towards satisfying the concerns of tho...

George Freeman | 600 cc596-601 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure, Madam Deputy Speaker, to serve under your stewardship today. I am usually...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c602 (Link to this contribution)

How much of the litigation cost is related to complaints about innovative treatments?

George Freeman | 600 c602 (Link to this contribution)

Most of the cases are a result of other contexts— as my hon. Friend will know, obstetrics is a bi...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c602 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister and the hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) have referred to anecdotal re...

George Freeman | 600 cc602-3 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady makes an important point because it is difficult to quantify the impact of that fea...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c603 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister accept that all the bodies he has referred to, as well as the Association of Me...

George Freeman | 600 cc603-4 (Link to this contribution)

I was addressing that point to make it clear that I and the Government take strongly the need to ...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c604 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister says that the Bill does not change the law on medical negligence but sets up an alte...

George Freeman | 600 cc604-5 (Link to this contribution)

That is an important question. The Bill does not change the legal framework on negligence; it mer...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c605 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister clarify that the vast majority of medical bodies feel that it is not a barrier ...

George Freeman | 600 c605 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point about public trust, and patient safety and confidence. I ...

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c605 (Link to this contribution)

My initial point was whether the Minister would accept that the overwhelming number of respondent...

George Freeman | 600 c605 (Link to this contribution)

I made the point earlier that the barriers to access of innovation are much broader than the fear...

Steve Baker | 600 c605 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister will know that in the treatment of wet AMD Lucentis costs £700 an injection and Avas...

George Freeman | 600 c605 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is quick to leap on to a very important point. The answer is no, because in law we...

Steve Baker | 600 c605 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister raises a critical point. I am concerned that cost grounds do matter and that some pe...

George Freeman | 600 cc606-7 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The NICE clinical guidance to NHS England, after carryin...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c607 (Link to this contribution)

Does that power not exist under section 254 of the Health and Social Care Act 2012?

George Freeman | 600 cc607-9 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady might be surprised to know I do not have that section right in front of me, but I w...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c609 (Link to this contribution)

As I understand it, the current test requires a doctor to seek the advice and medical opinion of ...

George Freeman | 600 cc609-611 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady raises an interesting point. I am just looking at clause 3(2):

“For the purpo...

Heidi Alexander | 600 c612 (Link to this contribution)

I am slightly worried that the Minister is ascribing to me words that I have not used. I have ind...

George Freeman | 600 c612 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for clarifying that.

Sarah Wollaston | 600 c612 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the Minister will give me an opportunity to clarify my position as well. I shall robustly...

George Freeman | 600 cc612-3 (Link to this contribution)

I well accept that views on the merits of this Bill are divided, not least for the reasons I have...

Chris Heaton-Harris | 600 c613 (Link to this contribution)

Even though there has been some negativity, this has been a very positive debate. I have enjoyed ...

Subjects

Databases
Liability
Innovation
NHS
Medical treatments
Negligence
Clinical trials

Legislation

Access to Medical Treatments (Innovation) Bill 2015-16

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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