UK Parliament / Open data

London Local Authorities Bill [Lords]

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 7 December 2011, in the House of Commons.
London Local Authorities Bill (HL). Report stage debate first day. Some amendments made. Bill to be further considered Tuesday 13 December.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

537 c326-65 

Session

2010-12

Department

Department for Communities and Local Government

Legislative stage

Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

London Local Authorities Bill (HL). Petition deposited by Sharpe Pritchard (Vote).
Tuesday, 27 November 2007
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Chris Williamson | 537 c356 (Link to this contribution) I do not have a major problem with that. I think that the circumstances of London are, to be fair, u...
Tom Brake | 537 c356-7 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak very briefly. First, I declare an interest in that my wife works for a London local ...

Show all contributions (106)
Robert Neill | 537 c357 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful that I have been given the opportunity to sit through this almost unique debate. I hop...
Christopher Chope | 537 c357 (Link to this contribution) It seems that the Government are now saying that they are taking a neutral position. However, on Sec...
Philip Davies | 537 c355-6 (Link to this contribution) I am amazed that the hon. Gentleman thinks that civil liberties are a spurious issue, although that ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c356 (Link to this contribution) To dwell a moment more on the issue of Derby, is the hon. Gentleman content that under the Bill a co...
Robert Neill | 537 c357-8 (Link to this contribution) Because there is comparatively little of what could almost be described as jurisprudence in this reg...
Christopher Chope | 537 c358-9 (Link to this contribution) We have had an excellent debate. I thank all who have participated, including those who have made te...
Philip Davies | 537 c359 (Link to this contribution) Is that not the crux of the matter? It is of no surprise that local authorities are in favour of the...
Christopher Chope | 537 c362-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to speak to this group of amendments. The lead amendment would remove clause ...
Speaker | 537 c362 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to consider amendments 16 to 20, 3 and 4.
Christopher Chope | 537 c359-60 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, and he made a powerful speech asking why people in Shipley should be dealt ...
Speaker | 537 c362 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House—[Interruption.] I know it is exciting, Mr Percy, being a Teller, but per...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c342-3 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope). He has mad...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c343-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for support from Opposition Members. What we currently have—Westminster city council ...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c344-6 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, that is what he was trying to do. He wanted him for his dinner. It seems to me that sometime...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c346 (Link to this contribution) That is extremely helpful. Indeed, it is both encouraging and worrying: it is encouraging in one sen...
Mike Freer | 537 c346 (Link to this contribution) Having reflected on the kind offer made by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope), we...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c347 (Link to this contribution) Quite right. How could I fail to agree? I hope that, when my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and...
Christopher Chope | 537 c346-7 (Link to this contribution) I am not in any way churlish about the generosity of my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Gold...
Philip Davies | 537 c338 (Link to this contribution) I totally agree with my hon. Friend. It is not only unreasonable but totally and utterly ridiculous....
Christopher Chope | 537 c337-8 (Link to this contribution) Exactly. To go back to the example given by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob...
Philip Davies | 537 c337 (Link to this contribution) The clause actually refers to somebody who"““intentionally obstructs any authorised officer””." Has...
Mike Freer | 537 c339-40 (Link to this contribution) I have greatly enjoyed this perambulation around local government, with bowler-hatted civil servants...
Christopher Chope | 537 c338-9 (Link to this contribution) That would have been an improvement, but I hope that my hon. Friend will think it better to support ...
David Nuttall | 537 c338 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that it might have been better if the clause, rather than using the word “...
Christopher Chope | 537 c338 (Link to this contribution) I can think of all sorts of reasons, but I do not necessarily want to share them with the House in r...
Philip Davies | 537 c341 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly puzzled about the corporate causes of litter. Is my hon. Friend insinuating that if so...
Mike Freer | 537 c340-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for my hon. Friend's intervention and I guessed that was where we would part company. ...
Philip Davies | 537 c340 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right—I do take a zero-tolerance approach to antisocial behaviour and t...
Chris Williamson | 537 c354 (Link to this contribution) I very much concur with the contribution made by the hon. Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mik...
Philip Davies | 537 c353-4 (Link to this contribution) I was describing people who would simply pretend that they had not received the notice because there...
Chris Williamson | 537 c354 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that that might be part of the explanation. I regret that some of the clauses were removed...
Christopher Chope | 537 c354 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will know that since the Bill was debated on Second Reading, the Opposed Bill Com...
Christopher Chope | 537 c352-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful case against clause 8(3) and (4). Does he accept that one proble...
Philip Davies | 537 c352 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who makes a fair point, but of course the big difference between th...
Chris Williamson | 537 c354-5 (Link to this contribution) It is not absurd. It is the hon. Gentleman who has been making a number of absurd criticisms. The po...
Philip Davies | 537 c354 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman seems to be advocating a curious line of argument. Is he really suggesting that i...
Chris Williamson | 537 c355 (Link to this contribution) If I might say so, the hon. Gentleman seems to be overstating the civil liberties argument. In my vi...
Christopher Chope | 537 c355 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that on issues as fundamental as civil liberties we should have n...
Philip Davies | 537 c348-50 (Link to this contribution) It is always a trial to follow my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), ...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c348 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is, as always, absolutely spot on, and I should advise anybody in the Chamber today o...
Christopher Chope | 537 c348 (Link to this contribution) What my hon. Friend says is reinforced by the fact that almost everybody who goes to a parking tribu...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c347-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman suggests that I look like one. If I look like one, there is not a lot of hope for...
Mike Freer | 537 c352 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give my hon. Friend a particular number, but I can try to help him on the issue of postage....
Philip Davies | 537 c351 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for clearing that up, because I had a great deal of concern about wh...
Mike Freer | 537 c351 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to reconfirm that I have accepted amendments 35 to 39.
Christopher Chope | 537 c351 (Link to this contribution) I hope that we will have the opportunity to test the opinion of the House on amendment 9, because mo...
Philip Davies | 537 c336 (Link to this contribution) May I tap into my hon. Friend's legal expertise, because his amendment could well be very helpful to...
Christopher Chope | 537 c336-7 (Link to this contribution) Again, I do not purport to be an expert on this Bill, and my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c337 (Link to this contribution) Adding up all these fines, there seems to be £1,000 under clause 18 and another £1,000 under clause ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c337 (Link to this contribution) That might be the situation. They seem just to have gone for level 3 fines, which are a maximum of £...
David Nuttall | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) On amendment 10, is there not a danger that there would be an expectation, in these straitened times...
Christopher Chope | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) That is an important point, because most borough councils are saying that they are short of funds an...
Christopher Chope | 537 c336 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 14 is, again, a consequential amendment relating to the need to remove references to an ““...
Philip Davies | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend any idea how often these provisions would be enforced, if his amendments were not...
Christopher Chope | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) Again, that is a very important point. On a Bill such as this, we do not need to have any cost-benef...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c329 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way again. Perhaps he could answer two questions. First, ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c329 (Link to this contribution) The answer to my hon. Friend's second question is yes. As for what uniform would be appropriate, I t...
Christopher Chope | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point that the sponsor of the Bill may wish to address later.
Philip Davies | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend—I take his point and I support his amendment—but there is one...
Christopher Chope | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) I hope neither, but my hon. Friend is right that as sure as night follows day, what follows from thi...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to keep on interrupting my hon. Friend, but his speech is so compelling and raises so man...
Christopher Chope | 537 c329 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his sedentary intervention, because it has given me an opportuni...
Christopher Chope | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) At present, a council officer has no more power than any other individual. Let me cite a constituenc...
Philip Davies | 537 c330 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend explain how this will work in practice? If someone who is asked for his name and...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c331 (Link to this contribution) Following on from the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (...
Mark Field | 537 c330-1 (Link to this contribution) I sympathise extensively with what my hon. Friend says about the civil liberties issues, but on this...
Christopher Chope | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is on to a really important point: if we are to change the balance between officialdo...
Philip Davies | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) If a constituent of mine, confident that they did not have to give their name and address to a local...
Christopher Chope | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend cites another good example. Again, the conscientious law-abiding citizen could find h...
David Nuttall | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a compelling speech, but could he deal with a point that we have not yet to...
Christopher Chope | 537 c331-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend, but this opens up a much larger debate that we will not go into now—the...
Philip Davies | 537 c331 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mark Field) is right:...
Christopher Chope | 537 c331 (Link to this contribution) Again, my hon. Friend is spot on. I am not sure whether the promoters have thought about that. It se...
Greg Knight | 537 c332 (Link to this contribution) Is the following statement an accurate précis of the situation: my hon. Friend's amendments are an a...
Christopher Chope | 537 c332-3 (Link to this contribution) Yes. Over time, offences have been decriminalised, and when I was a Transport Minister I supported t...
Greg Knight | 537 c333 (Link to this contribution) Is there any popular support for this measure? A number of colleagues representing London constituen...
Christopher Chope | 537 c333 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes a good point. It certainly appears that the public's representatives are ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c334 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is doing a great job in defending his local authorities, and I hope that as a result ...
Mark Field | 537 c333 (Link to this contribution) I have some sympathy with the view that certain parts of the country should not have an entirely dif...
Christopher Chope | 537 c334 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to advertise, but I agree that readers of tourist guides such as those produced by Lon...
Greg Knight | 537 c334 (Link to this contribution) As ignorance of the law is not a defence, if these amendments are not accepted by the Bill's promote...
Christopher Chope | 537 c334-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree, which is why I have tabled amendment 9 seeking to leave out clause 4 entirely. I have provi...
Philip Davies | 537 c334 (Link to this contribution) In respect of this group of amendments, instead of simply restricting the provision so it applies to...
Speaker | 537 c326 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendments 6, 8, 7, 9 to 14, 21 and 35 to 39.
Christopher Chope | 537 c328 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has made a powerful point. There is evidence that local authorities have given ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c327 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that that would be the consequence and that it indicates t...
Christopher Chope | 537 c326 (Link to this contribution) This Bill has been before the House for four years. Earlier this year, it went through an opposed Bi...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 537 c327 (Link to this contribution) Is it really the case that the Bill as drafted means that these officers could go around willy-nilly...
Christopher Chope | 537 c328 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good question, but it is probable that only the promoters of the Bill can answer it d...
Greg Knight | 537 c328 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way to me again. He is being very generous. We all know ...
Christopher Chope | 537 c327 (Link to this contribution) If a body corporate were liable for the penalty charge, it could be served on its director. My right...
David Nuttall | 537 c327-8 (Link to this contribution) Can my hon. Friend explain who accredits those persons? How do they become accredited?
Chris Williamson | 537 c356 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is putting words into my mouth. I did not say that civil liberties were a ““spuri...
Philip Davies | 537 c351 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I said earlier that this would be a red letter day for him, as so m...
Mark Field | 537 c335 (Link to this contribution) Although I very much understand the concern raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr N...
Christopher Chope | 537 c331 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend almost answered his own point in his preamble, when he said that this was a civil lib...
Greg Knight | 537 c327 (Link to this contribution) I hope my hon. Friend will forgive me for saying this, but could it not be argued that his amendment...
Mike Freer | 537 c341-2 (Link to this contribution) That is the very point. There are two issues. McDonald's is a fine organisation based in my constitu...

Subjects

Fixed penalties
Greater London
Local government
Police
Litter
Powers

Legislation

London Local Authorities Bill (HL) 2007-08 to 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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