UK Parliament / Open data

Localism Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 18 May 2011, in the House of Commons, led by Robert Neill. The answering member was Baroness Keeley.

Localism Bill. Report stage second day. New clause 21, discussed with new schedule 2 and new clause 20, debated and agreed. New schedule 2 and new clause 20 agreed. New clause 19, discussed with new clauses 3, 23 to 26, 33 and 38, and new schedule 1, debated and agreed. New clause 22 added to the Bill. Amendments made. Queen's and Prince of Wales's consent signified. Third reading debate. Agreed to on division (300 votes to 216). Bill read the third time and passed. [Relevant documents: The Second Report from the Communities and Local Government Committee, Abolition of Regional Spatial Strategies: a planning vacuum?, HC 517; Written evidence submitted to the Communities and Local Government Committee on the General Power of Competence, HC 931; The Third Report from the Environmental Audit Committee, Sustainable Development in the Localism Bill, HC 799.]

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

528 c367-465

Session

2010-12

Localism Bill. As amended in Public Bill Committee. Two volumes.
Thursday, 10 March 2011
Bills
House of Commons

Sustainable development in the Localism Bill. Environmental Audit Select Committee third report with formal minutes, evidence and appendices.
Wednesday, 16 March 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

The abolition of regional spatial strategies. Communities and Local Government Select Committee second report with formal minutes, evidence (HC 517 i-iv not printed separately) and appendices.
Monday, 28 February 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

General power of competence. Written evidence 4 April 2011.
Monday, 4 April 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Nick Raynsford | 528 c433 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely wrong. There is no way in which there will be more social homes, be...

Lord Stunell | 528 c432 (Link to this contribution) We do have a concern: it is for the 5 million people who are waiting for social housing, and about t...

Show all contributions (168)

Nick Raynsford | 528 c432 (Link to this contribution) I draw attention to the interest I declared at the beginning of the Bill's passage through the House...

Lord Stunell | 528 c433 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the right hon. Gentleman says, but will he not acknowledge that at the end of 13 y...

Nick Raynsford | 528 c432-3 (Link to this contribution) Were that true the Government would not have cut the Homes and Communities Agency investment budget ...

Lord Stunell | 528 c429 (Link to this contribution) I did give that assurance; we certainly are going to take a very close look at the point he is raisi...

Clive Betts | 528 c429 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point. These measures are changing the status of council tenants, d...

Gordon Henderson | 528 c430-2 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), I shall speak not about housing, but about litter, ...

Clive Betts | 528 c429-30 (Link to this contribution) The Housing Minister has said that he is prepared to have a meeting with me and other officers of th...

Jeremy Corbyn | 528 c428-9 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely endorse what my hon. Friend is saying. Is there not a strange contrast here in that Par...

Jonathan Edwards | 528 c456 (Link to this contribution) Let me continue in that spirit of partisanship. The Welsh branch of the Minister's party had a manif...

Greg Clark | 528 c457 (Link to this contribution) I will not, because I made a commitment that Members would be free to go to our late colleague's fun...

Andrea Leadsom | 528 c457 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Andrea Leadsom | 528 c459-60 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak very briefly on behalf of my constituency of South Northamptonshire. I and my consti...

Baroness Keeley | 528 c457-9 (Link to this contribution) We have had more than 70 hours of debate and evidence during the Commons stage of the Bill, but I sa...

Stephen Gilbert | 528 c460-1 (Link to this contribution) Before I move on to my remarks about the Bill, I should like to join colleagues from all parts of th...

Martin Vickers | 528 c439-40 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief, because many of my points have been made already. Indeed, I could have written the ...

Greg Clark | 528 c455-6 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. I shall keep my remarks brief because many...

Lord Stunell | 528 c440-1 (Link to this contribution) I certainly have longer than yesterday, but not quite long enough to answer all the points raised. ...

Speaker | 528 c437 (Link to this contribution) Order. Could the hon. Lady turn around, so that the microphone picks up her voice and the whole Hous...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c437 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making some very strong points. Does she—

Sheila Gilmore | 528 c436-7 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak in support of the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor ...

Simon Hughes | 528 c435-6 (Link to this contribution) I remind the House that one of the new clauses and amendments in this group is my new clause 38. The...

Dan Rogerson | 528 c438 (Link to this contribution) The key to social housing is longer-term tenure, which gives families, and particularly those with y...

Sheila Gilmore | 528 c437-8 (Link to this contribution) I certainly find that extremely surprising given what is in the Bill. We have to ask the Government...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c437 (Link to this contribution) Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. Does my hon. Friend share my surprise at the fact that the Minister ha...

Nick Raynsford | 528 c433-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point that I entirely endorse. It shows that the Minister's c...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c433 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend acknowledge that in the five years between 2005 and 2010 the Labour Govern...

Annette Brooke | 528 c427-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall be very brief, as I wish my colleagues to have time to make their quite important contributi...

Ian Mearns | 528 c427 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point, with which I wholeheartedly concur. I was goi...

Jeremy Corbyn | 528 c427 (Link to this contribution) I endorse what my hon. Friend is saying. Is he also aware that those of us who cycle face a danger f...

Ian Mearns | 528 c426 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), the shadow Mini...

Clive Betts | 528 c428 (Link to this contribution) May I begin by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck) on ...

Annette Brooke | 528 c428 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman does not mind, I would like to be brief so that my colleagues can get in. I w...

Jeremy Corbyn | 528 c428 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady give way?

Speaker | 528 c382 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I just say that we need to get back to dealing with the new clause? We are having a histo...

Simon Hughes | 528 c382 (Link to this contribution) I stand rebuked, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was tempted by the right hon. Gentleman, but I will not be any...

Heidi Alexander | 528 c382 (Link to this contribution) What does the right hon. Gentleman make of what I see as something of a conundrum in the Bill? If a ...

Simon Hughes | 528 c383 (Link to this contribution) They will have had a say, because, as the hon. Lady will know, the Bill contains a requirement for f...

Lord Barwell | 528 c383 (Link to this contribution) I tried to address in my speech the point that the right hon. Gentleman is making, but he was in dis...

Simon Hughes | 528 c383-4 (Link to this contribution) At the moment, of course, the legislation provides for how the Mayor chooses the people to be on the...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 528 c384-5 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes). It goe...

Baroness Keeley | 528 c385 (Link to this contribution) I want to speak briefly in support of the amendments so ably presented by my hon. Friend the Member ...

Robert Neill | 528 c385-6 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting and worthwhile debate, although I accept that there has been an element...

Speaker | 528 c392 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby. The House having divided: Ayes...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c419-20 (Link to this contribution) Yet again, this is all about discretion and saying, ““Trust us.”” I am afraid that we would like to ...

Lord Stunell | 528 c419 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady accept that the Bill will give registered landlords the opportunity to have tenan...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c416 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. During the general election, we fought and battled hard throug...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c416-7 (Link to this contribution) If the right hon. Gentleman will allow me, I shall address some of those points later in my speech. ...

Simon Hughes | 528 c417 (Link to this contribution) indicated dissent.

Alison Seabeck | 528 c417 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman sits there and shakes his head, but there are enough questions about this m...

Simon Hughes | 528 c417 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that this is very serious and I am listening very carefully to the hon. Lady—I do not d...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c417-8 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes a point about Southwark council, but evidence suggests that significa...

Simon Hughes | 528 c418 (Link to this contribution) It's unlikely.

Alison Seabeck | 528 c418-9 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps, but the point is that there is clearly an appetite among Conservative councils for making u...

Anne Main | 528 c425 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful point, but I have to say that young families who are seeking a h...

Andrew Percy | 528 c423 (Link to this contribution) I wish to discuss amendments 13 and 271, and in doing so to draw on my experience of serving for 10 ...

Anne Main | 528 c423 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an interesting point, but the fact is that many people downsize whether the...

Andrew Percy | 528 c424 (Link to this contribution) Percy: I agree. We experienced several problems of antisocial behaviour in the community that I used...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c424 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a strong case. Does he accept that because such rapid turnover of tenan...

Andrew Percy | 528 c424 (Link to this contribution) My local authority had a clear policy. Housing officers would talk to tenants and try to encourage t...

Stephen Gilbert | 528 c424 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a number of excellent points. Does he agree that the Government cannot crea...

Stephen Gilbert | 528 c408-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend seems to suggest that there are protections in the Bill already for people discharged...

Lord Stunell | 528 c409 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point, which he made in Committee. As he knows, there are a number...

Simon Hughes | 528 c409 (Link to this contribution) I was reassured by my hon. Friend's words about the Government's intention that people should not ha...

Lord Stunell | 528 c409 (Link to this contribution) Yes. Perhaps my words were a little too opaque a little while ago when I said that we are prepared t...

Lord Stunell | 528 c408 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I certainly will. I hope that the hon. Gentleman does not mind if I do so in sequence, but I wi...

Karen Buck | 528 c408 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister, who is being extremely generous in giving way. In central London, whi...

Lord Stunell | 528 c408 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady speaks of 7%. That was her figure; I do not know whether it is exactly right, but a pr...

Ian Mearns | 528 c409 (Link to this contribution) Two unitary county councils have been established in the north-east of England in the recent past wh...

Lord Stunell | 528 c409-10 (Link to this contribution) I take stock of what the hon. Gentleman says. My hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (...

Sheila Gilmore | 528 c410 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not agree, however, that for many people the attraction of the housing association...

Clive Efford | 528 c416 (Link to this contribution) Some of us who fought very hard on the issue of secure tenancies and the future of rents at the last...

Lord Stunell | 528 c411-3 (Link to this contribution) Yes. It is important that we review the guidance—I just said that we should do so—and it would be an...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c413-5 (Link to this contribution) I repeat the declaration I made at the start of the Public Bill Committee, which is on the record. ...

Lord Stunell | 528 c411 (Link to this contribution) I understand that that would be very welcome, but at the moment I am not convinced of the need for c...

Clive Betts | 528 c411 (Link to this contribution) I follow the hon. Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert) in his request for a ballot in...

Lord Stunell | 528 c410-1 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I entirely agree that there is scope for innovative solutions. It is by no means the Government...

Stephen Gilbert | 528 c411 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the commitment to ““ballot in, ballot out”” in the disestablishment of ALMOs, but the prin...

Lord Stunell | 528 c410 (Link to this contribution) I understand the hon. Lady's concern, but I think that it undervalues the history of tenants in the ...

Dan Rogerson | 528 c410 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government could perhaps do a little more to look at other ways o...

Karen Buck | 528 c415-6 (Link to this contribution) Earlier, the Minister assured us that there would be regulations to protect secure tenants—he mentio...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c416 (Link to this contribution) That is clear evidence of the case that we are trying to make. There is always a risk, when minimum ...

Lord Stunell | 528 c405 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. This process is not going to be an instant event and a miracle cure; i...

Brandon Lewis | 528 c405 (Link to this contribution) Will not one of the results of this change be that local authorities such as mine in Great Yarmouth ...

Lord Stunell | 528 c405 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has not been listening, and that is perhaps not unusual. We are setting tenure st...

Andy Slaughter | 528 c405 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is doing a very good Pontius Pilate impersonation. He is saying, ““I'll wash my hands o...

Andrew Percy | 528 c405 (Link to this contribution) Of course one person's flexibility is somebody else's inflexibility—in this case, we are talking abo...

Lord Stunell | 528 c404 (Link to this contribution) Under our proposals, gradually over a period of time there will be a more diverse pattern of tenanci...

Lord Stunell | 528 c404 (Link to this contribution) Just give me a moment.

Andrew Percy | 528 c404 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way again?

Lord Stunell | 528 c404-5 (Link to this contribution) I will give an answer, but I thought it might be useful to give a complete answer, rather than a par...

Clive Efford | 528 c404 (Link to this contribution) Give an answer.

Andy Slaughter | 528 c407-8 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister moves on, will he deal with two points regarding what he has said so far? First,...

Lord Stunell | 528 c407 (Link to this contribution) The tenure standards will set that out, the housing strategy of the local housing authority will rei...

Clive Betts | 528 c406-7 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister have any practical examples? He has talked about long waiting lists for family hou...

Lord Stunell | 528 c406 (Link to this contribution) No, that is not correct. Let us be clear that the tenure standards will provide specific protection ...

Nicholas Dakin | 528 c406 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way?

Lord Stunell | 528 c406 (Link to this contribution) No, someone's fixed-term tenancy is subject to review at the end of the term. There is no automatic ...

Nicholas Dakin | 528 c406 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way, as he is being very generous. I think the answer to the questio...

Lord Stunell | 528 c406 (Link to this contribution) Fortunately, I do not have to take responsibility for the actions of that body—[Hon. Members: ““You ...

Karen Buck | 528 c406 (Link to this contribution) Going back to the Minister's assurances that landlords will not adopt the minimum standards of tenan...

Lord Stunell | 528 c406 (Link to this contribution) I will when I finish the sentence, if that is all right. The tenure standard will prescribe what lo...

Karen Buck | 528 c402 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may wish to respond to a statistical point anecdotally, and of course it is true that t...

Speaker | 528 c402 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sure that the Minister wants to answer that question briefly, but I think that any furth...

Lord Stunell | 528 c401-2 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is right on both counts. Let me begin by saying that, as I ended up summing up...

Simon Hughes | 528 c401 (Link to this contribution) Before my hon. Friend deals with that, will he put it on the record that nothing in the Bill changes...

Lord Stunell | 528 c402 (Link to this contribution) I have news for the hon. Lady. As one who represents a constituency outside London, I can tell her t...

Karen Buck | 528 c402 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister make it clear what the disparity between overcrowded and under-occupied properties...

Lord Stunell | 528 c397 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Lord Stunell | 528 c400-1 (Link to this contribution) The Bill brings forward a package of reforms to social housing. Taken together, they strengthen loca...

Speaker | 528 c397 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Andrew Percy | 528 c404 (Link to this contribution) May I take the Minister back to the scenario he was describing of a family who move into a three-bed...

Lord Stunell | 528 c403-4 (Link to this contribution) Yes of course I will, although I will take just a few minutes to reach that point in my remarks. I ...

Nick Raynsford | 528 c403 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has said he would like the five-year limit to be the normal minimum, with shorter terms...

Lord Stunell | 528 c403 (Link to this contribution) Of course I do not accept that. A housing provider who decides that this is too complex can choose n...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c403 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not accept that the situation he describes will end up involving an amazingly comp...

Lord Stunell | 528 c403 (Link to this contribution) I will give way, but then I must make some progress.

Lord Stunell | 528 c403 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. The housing measures in the Bill will provide greater discretion for ...

Speaker | 528 c403 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think the Minister is pushing his luck. As he knows, he will be summing up the Third Readin...

Lord Stunell | 528 c402 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker. I would have been tempted to talk about our housing ...

Robert Neill | 528 c368 (Link to this contribution) We are dealing with part 7 of the Bill, which relates to governance in Greater London, and part 3, w...

Speaker | 528 c367-8 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Robert Neill | 528 c367 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Speaker | 528 c368 (Link to this contribution) Order. It might be helpful if I interrupt to make the point to the House that, although that is inde...

Baroness Keeley | 528 c374 (Link to this contribution) I think I am right in reporting the Minister as saying that a principle of the Localism Bill is to t...

Robert Neill | 528 c374 (Link to this contribution) I will give the right hon. Gentleman this: he is right on textual analysis but remains wrong on poli...

Nick Raynsford | 528 c373-4 (Link to this contribution) I want to correct the Minister's assertion that I was wrong in my interpretation of the Bill. I repe...

Robert Neill | 528 c373 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for sharing her experience of that body, which is a matter of great ...

Nick Raynsford | 528 c376 (Link to this contribution) Why not?

Heidi Alexander | 528 c375-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to the two amendments in my name, although it feels rathe...

Robert Neill | 528 c374-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Mr Speaker. I am anxious to deal with as many of the issues raised by hon. Members as...

Speaker | 528 c374 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is in the hands of the Chair. At this stage, the hon. Gentleman will continue his remark...

Heidi Alexander | 528 c376 (Link to this contribution) I will not repeat them because I am under strict instructions to keep the debate moving as quickly a...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 528 c376 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the hon. Lady's views and I am listening to her with great attention. Does she no...

Lord Barwell | 528 c377-8 (Link to this contribution) I will restrict myself to commenting on mayoral development corporations. There is an irony in the p...

Lord Barwell | 528 c378-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, who is a former member of the assembly, knows that many members are in that position...

Eric Ollerenshaw | 528 c378 (Link to this contribution) indicated assent.

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 528 c380 (Link to this contribution) I hasten to say that I do not know as much about the right hon. Gentleman's constituency as he does,...

Simon Hughes | 528 c379-80 (Link to this contribution) I shall make a brief contribution to what is an important debate for London, which I am happy to tak...

Nick Raynsford | 528 c381-2 (Link to this contribution) I was a little surprised when the right hon. Gentleman said that he supported the restoration of the...

Simon Hughes | 528 c380-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall not help the House to hold a seminar on London in the '70s and '80s, which would actually be...

Heidi Alexander | 528 c376-7 (Link to this contribution) That is quite a negative view of politics in London. I do not think that my proposal would lead to i...

Simon Hughes | 528 c382 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is of course correct. He knows that as well as anybody, because it was his ...

Baroness Keeley | 528 c370-1 (Link to this contribution) I doubt it, because having representatives from borough councils on the assembly is not a strong eno...

Robert Neill | 528 c370 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right, and I am grateful to him for raising the suggestion in Committee, ...

Lord Barwell | 528 c370 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Government for accepting the approach that I outlined in Committee in response ...

Robert Neill | 528 c369-70 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is a history to the incremental growth of the London Thame...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 528 c369 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the anecdotal evidence from the Thames Gateway is that the level of a...

Robert Neill | 528 c368-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Mr Speaker. I will encapsulate the technicalities as swiftly as I can, but it suffic...

Robert Neill | 528 c371-2 (Link to this contribution) Yes, the corporations could act in that way. They do not have to, because we have not been as specif...

Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 528 c372 (Link to this contribution) Setting aside the sui generis nature of London governance, does my hon. Friend agree that the level ...

Simon Hughes | 528 c371 (Link to this contribution) Our colleagues on the London assembly are supportive of the Government's amendments and new clauses,...

Nick Raynsford | 528 c372-3 (Link to this contribution) The Minister knows that it is not just a theoretical possibility. The Bill states very clearly that ...

Robert Neill | 528 c372 (Link to this contribution) In theory, a Mayor could seek to disregard a local authority's views, but in practice we reckon that...

Robert Neill | 528 c373 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but the right hon. Gentleman has been consistently wrong on this point. If he will forgi...

Robert Neill | 528 c372 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right for two reasons. First, the power to set up the corporation is de...

Simon Hughes | 528 c372 (Link to this contribution) I heard what the Minister said about the discussions that have been going on in east London between ...

Robert Neill | 528 c373 (Link to this contribution) I give way first to my hon. Friend and then to the right hon. Gentleman.

Andrea Leadsom | 528 c373 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend knows, West Northants Development Corporation has been hated by local residents fo...

Greg Clark | 528 c456-7 (Link to this contribution) We have a national system for consenting to major infrastructure projects. I have had meetings with ...

John McDonnell | 528 c438-9 (Link to this contribution) In two minutes, I shall try to make three points. I apologise for not being in the Chamber throughou...

Simon Hughes | 528 c416 (Link to this contribution) I am very clear that secure tenancies are a good thing, that council housing is a good thing, and th...

Andrew Percy | 528 c425-6 (Link to this contribution) The radical solution that I have always favoured—which is not very popular among my party colleagues...

Robert Neill | 528 c371 (Link to this contribution) I am disappointed in the hon. Lady's response, because I thought that we had got a good deal of the ...

Andrew Percy | 528 c424-5 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point, and I hope all Members would want to avoid that, but it is a possible ...

Stephen Gilbert | 528 c420 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for indicating her party's support for such a proposal. It could be q...

Alison Seabeck | 528 c420-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that I agree. I tabled the amendments in Committee proposing exactly that, ...