UK Parliament / Open data

Postal Services Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Monday, 14 March 2011, in the House of Lords.
Postal Services Bill. Lords committee stage second day. Clause 2: Report on decision to dispose of shares in a Royal Mail company etc, debated and agreed to.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

726 c41-74, c94-122 

Session

2010-12

Department

Department for Business, Innovation and Skills

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Postal Services Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes also published (HL Bill 38-EN).
Thursday, 13 January 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 726 c46-51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I first declare the interest that I declared many times when my party was trying to push t...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 726 c46 (Link to this contribution) 10: Clause 2, page 2, line 3, at end insert— ““( ) how the Secretary of State will ensure that the p...

Show all contributions (99)
Lord Hoyle | 726 c51-2 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Clarke of Hampstead. No one else has more knowledge of the Roy...
Lord Skelmersdale | 726 c51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as the Committee knows, I look at the Bill from a totally different perspective from that ...
Baroness Kramer | 726 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the statements made by the noble Lord, Lord Clarke, expressed the distress that is widely ...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 726 c52 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was present on the previous occasion and listened with considerable sympathy to the nobl...
Lord Swinfen | 726 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) Apart from Royal Mail, there are a number of other providers of postal services, none of which produ...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 726 c53 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the principal point that my noble friend Lord Clarke of Hampstead made about the univer...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 726 c54 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, unless I have read this Bill wrong, Clauses 28 and 29 leave no doubts about the universal ...
Lord Swinfen | 726 c46 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, think it would be appropriate for the name ““Royal Mail”” to be ow...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c46 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, that we intend to put safeguards in place to ensure ...
Lord Borrie | 726 c45 (Link to this contribution) I would have spoken immediately after my noble friend Lord Kennedy, except that I imagined—wrongly—t...
Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 726 c44 (Link to this contribution) 9: Clause 2, page 2, line 3, at end insert— ““( ) the means by which the name Royal Mail is to be pr...
Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 726 c44 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that I will get a favourable response from the Minister as my amendment should caus...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c43-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Young, for his most helpful opening words. Telling me that hi...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c41 (Link to this contribution) 8: Clause 2, page 2, line 2, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert— ““( ) the principal object...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c41-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall also speak to Amendment 11. These amendments concern the report that the Secretary...
Lord Razzall | 726 c116 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I normally try to avoid rising before the Minister’s response. Although the noble Lord doe...
Lord Touhig | 726 c116 (Link to this contribution) The noble suggested that people were not telling the truth. I do not know where he has been this eve...
Lord Empey | 726 c116 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not wish to get involved in this particular exchange, but I declare an interest as a ...
Baroness Kramer | 726 c117-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I say to the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, that I remember, not that long ago when we were stan...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c118-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, somewhat later than planned, I rise to support both Amendment 16 in the name of the noble ...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c119-20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I suppose that I ought to start by saying that I live in Cornwall, which may put the Commi...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c120 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Minister is right about the attentiveness of the Bill team in the Box; they all l...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c121 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for expressing that more clearly than I did. The Government have already prod...
Lord Low of Dalston | 726 c121-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her full reply and to all noble Lords who have spoken. A...
Baroness Drake | 726 c68-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister in the other place, the honourable Ed Davey, has tried on several occasions t...
Baroness Kramer | 726 c68 (Link to this contribution) The comments of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, arouse some questions in my mind, and this seems the ap...
Lord Whitty | 726 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a fairly straightforward amendment, and I am sure that the Government will have no...
Lord Whitty | 726 c66 (Link to this contribution) 12A: Clause 2, page 2, line 3, at end insert— ““( ) a schedule of assets held by Royal Mail Holdings...
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 726 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her response, which is rather depressing in its rejection of our proposal. ...
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 726 c63 (Link to this contribution) 12: Clause 2, page 2, line 3, at end insert— ““( ) that the receipts of the sale will be used exclus...
Lord Razzall | 726 c61 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Clarke of Hampstead, could never offend me.
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 726 c61-3 (Link to this contribution) That is a bonus. I will briefly try to answer some of the points. The noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c94-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment directs the Secretary of State to ensure that in any relevant disposal ther...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c94 (Link to this contribution) 13: Clause 2, page 2, line 3, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of State will ensure that any relev...
Baroness Donaghy | 726 c96 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak as a former chair of ACAS. One of the joys of ACAS is that I probably know more ab...
Lord Whitty | 726 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, particularly for her last few sentences; clearly we may well c...
Baroness Kramer | 726 c74 (Link to this contribution) I fear that the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, may have misunderstood me; I obviously was not clear. If I ...
Lord Whitty | 726 c74 (Link to this contribution) But, my Lords, the report to Parliament provided for in Clause 2 is a necessary stage for the Secret...
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 726 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Whitty. A couple of noble Lord...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 12A seeks to require the Secretary of State to include in his report to Parliame...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c58-60 (Link to this contribution) I think that the answer to that question is yes. In fact I am sure that the answer is yes. The unive...
Lord Skelmersdale | 726 c58 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may briefly interrupt my noble friend. Does that mean that the original purchase...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c61 (Link to this contribution) On maintaining the universal service, as I said, Ofcom will be watching like a hawk to make sure tha...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 726 c61 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I start by thanking all those who have taken part in what has been a useful exchange of vi...
Viscount Eccles | 726 c54 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Postal Services Act 2000 ““liberalised”” the postal service. There are now, I think, 4...
Lord Razzall | 726 c54 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for not being in my place on the previous day or at the beginning of the Secon...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c55-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support this amendment. At this juncture, I am happy to share the same analysis, if not ...
Lord Razzall | 726 c58 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister responds, could I make one point that I think is important? In the con...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c58 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have had a great debate across the Committee, which has been provoked by the noble Lord...
Earl Attlee | 726 c106 (Link to this contribution) This might be a convenient moment to remind the House that we are in Committee, we can speak as many...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 726 c106 (Link to this contribution) I take compliments of that type. I do not receive many compliments and I shall take that as a compli...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 726 c105 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it will not surprise the House that I will in due course withdraw the amendment pro tem, b...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c104-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a stimulating evening all round. Amendment 14 is a sister amendment to Amend...
Baroness Kramer | 726 c103 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Young, and I seem to have discovered a knack of talking past each other. I have...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c103 (Link to this contribution) I do not normally intervene; indeed, I am impelled to do so only by the contribution of the noble Lo...
Baroness Kramer | 726 c103 (Link to this contribution) I am perfectly happy to sit down if that is helpful.
Lord Razzall | 726 c103 (Link to this contribution) We are in Committee, you do not have to interrupt.
Lord Touhig | 726 c114 (Link to this contribution) Did the noble Lord suggest that the noble Lord, Lord Low, and I were somehow misleading the House by...
Lord Razzall | 726 c113-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not want to intrude in the debate on this amendment, but unfortunately the noble Lord...
Lord Low of Dalston | 726 c109 (Link to this contribution) 16: Clause 2, page 2, line 17, at end insert— ““(6) Prior to any disposal of shares in Royal Mail, t...
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 726 c108-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response. We seem to be placing a great deal of stress on hopes and as...
Lord Touhig | 726 c111-3 (Link to this contribution) In supporting the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Low, I shall speak to my Amendment 16A. T...
Lord Low of Dalston | 726 c109-11 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 16 is designed to strengthen the rights of users of postal services. As has been...
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 726 c106 (Link to this contribution) 15: Clause 2, page 2, line 12, leave out subsection (5) and insert— ““( ) In order to ensure that it...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c108 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I believe that the intended effect of Amendment 15, in the names of the noble Lords, Lord ...
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 726 c106-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thought that, following that interruption, we should have a few seconds of silence to ga...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c100-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the purpose of Amendment 14 is to provide for the disposal of shares to take place in tran...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 726 c98 (Link to this contribution) 13A: Clause 2, page 2, line 3, at end insert— ““(3A) In the event that a sale is made by an initial ...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c98 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her response, even if it did not go as far as I would have liked. I also th...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 13 seeks to place a duty on the Secretary of State to ensure that employees’ exi...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 726 c96-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am afraid that we now see week after week in some newspapers—I would include under that ...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c99 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move the amendment standing in my name.
Lord Lea of Crondall | 726 c99 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 13A and 14 cover two complementary points; I shall deal with the first aspect a...
Baroness Kramer | 726 c103 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, does not the dispute that has just taken place make it clear that this House and the other...
Lord Razzall | 726 c102 (Link to this contribution) May I finish what I am saying? We are in Committee; the noble Lord does not have to interrupt me. Th...
Lord Razzall | 726 c102 (Link to this contribution) It is not for me to respond to this; I am sure that the noble Baroness can do so more eloquently tha...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 726 c102 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord has sat down. Did I hear him say that a sale through an IPO per se was unli...
Viscount Eccles | 726 c102 (Link to this contribution) Yes, it was in 2008, when Hooper gave an update—
Lord Lea of Crondall | 726 c102 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord will allow me, it was the Hooper report that said that the most likely presumption...
Viscount Eccles | 726 c102-3 (Link to this contribution) Hooper said in 2010 that the situation had worsened, although he acknowledged that things were happe...
Lord Razzall | 726 c101-2 (Link to this contribution) I cannot say how much I respect the views of the noble Lord, Lord Lea of Crondall, and the noble Lor...
Lord Kennedy of Southwark | 726 c46 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her response, which I am a little disappointed by but hope she will reflect...
Lord McAvoy | 726 c114-5 (Link to this contribution) I am tempted, especially by the last speaker. I am sure that every Liberal candidate in Scotland wil...
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara | 726 c63-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the purpose of this amendment is to ensure that the proceeds of any sale of Royal Mail are...
Lord Skelmersdale | 726 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I tend to agree with my noble friend Lady Kramer on this. Although what comes out of the d...
Lord Razzall | 726 c114 (Link to this contribution) No, I actually said that the noble Lord, instead of making party-political, snide comments, should a...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c44-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fully appreciate the sentiment behind the amendment. The name ““Royal Mail”” has been sy...
Lord Young of Norwood Green | 726 c44 (Link to this contribution) I cannot say that we are completely satisfied with the noble Baroness’s response. Nevertheless, we s...
Baroness Wilcox | 726 c65 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 12 wishes to direct any proceeds received from a sale of shares to investment in...
Lord Hoyle | 726 c60 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down, will she answer my point? I said that you could maintain a universal ...
Lord Razzall | 726 c105 (Link to this contribution) I must intervene before the noble Lord withdraws the amendment. I am a student of Machiavelli and I ...

Subjects

Disability
Conditions of employment
Assets
Industrial relations
Investment
Private sector
Northern Ireland
Privatisation
Property transfer
Older people
Staff
Post offices
Postal services
Ofcom
Post Office
Scotland
Small businesses
Shares
Trade unions
Wales
Rural areas
Royal Mail
Universal service obligation
Parcelforce

Legislation

Postal Services Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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