UK Parliament / Open data

Postal Services Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 12 January 2011, in the House of Commons.
Postal Services Bill. Report stage. New clause 2 (Guarantee of inter-business agreement) debated and negatived on division (250 to 208). New clause 4 (Restriction on universal service provider disposals) debated and negatived on division (240 to 315). Clauses 11, 14, 33, 60, 78 and 79 agreed, some with amendments. Third reading agreed on division (319 to 238). Bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

521 c293-401 

Session

2010-12

Department

Department for Business, Innovation and Skills

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Postal Services Bill. Explanatory notes also published (Bill 78-EN).
Wednesday, 13 October 2010
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Damian Collins | 521 c300 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman concerned that, given the nature of change, a 10-year restriction on the inter...
Bob Russell | 521 c299-300 (Link to this contribution) That is a good question. The number could be nine or 11. Those with whom I have discussed this point...

Show all contributions (297)
Mike Hancock | 521 c300 (Link to this contribution) You have been getting up early.
Bob Russell | 521 c300 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend thinks that I have been spending hours and hours trawling around meeting Ministers...
Michael Connarty | 521 c309 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend—on this issue—take from me a factual statement? In front of witnesses, we met th...
Richard Fuller | 521 c309 (Link to this contribution) To echo the Minister's comments about the observations of the current management by Members on the P...
Brian Binley | 521 c309-10 (Link to this contribution) I accept that interjection and support that point, too, because I was one of those who consistently ...
Jim McGovern | 521 c310 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would agree that we—or any new owners—must push business towards t...
Brian Binley | 521 c310 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman, whom I worked with for some time on the Business, Innovati...
Brian Binley | 521 c310 (Link to this contribution) I accept the hon. Gentleman's comment. The Post Office could have been much more imaginative in supp...
Brian Binley | 521 c311 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. He knows that I agree with that view—in fact, we have ...
Caroline Lucas | 521 c312 (Link to this contribution) I very much want to support the focus on the community role of local post offices. We focused on the...
Brian Binley | 521 c312 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for supporting my point. In addition to the community networking element, pos...
Damian Collins | 521 c311 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend talked about good and bad management in the past. Does he agree that we should not le...
Brian Binley | 521 c311-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend again for his intervention which is, of course, quite supportive of my words;...
Brian Binley | 521 c312-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her comments. I think that these interventions are making an impr...
Fiona O'Donnell | 521 c312 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, during the bad weather that we had at the end of last year, the ...
Bob Russell | 521 c303-4 (Link to this contribution) Again, it is a good argument, and the hon. Gentleman may be proved right as time moves on. I hope th...
Bob Russell | 521 c306 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman be gracious enough to acknowledge that over the past 13 years his Government...
Bob Russell | 521 c304 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is right, which is why the new clause is important, not only for t...
Ed Davey | 521 c307 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions the United States Postal Service. Is he aware that it made an $8 billion...
David Mowat | 521 c307 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman explain how the Bill, which gives each of the 7,000 currently unviable post ...
Mike Weir | 521 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a good point. He speaks of a post office being put into a sweet shop. D...
Brian Binley | 521 c308 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty)—he must have troub...
Jim McGovern | 521 c302 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman said that the Communication Workers Union supports the 10-year period. I am part ...
Bob Russell | 521 c300 (Link to this contribution) That is certainly a valid argument, although I do not agree with it. I understand what the hon. Gent...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c302 (Link to this contribution) The problem for Labour Members is that when the Government discuss mutuals or co-operatives, we do n...
Bob Russell | 521 c302-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, and in so doing I return to the confusion about pos...
Eilidh Whiteford | 521 c324 (Link to this contribution) On the point about supermarkets, one key issue coming out of the Scottish Affairs Committee's report...
Mike Weir | 521 c324-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Of the 12,000 current post offices, only 7,500 are needed to...
Mike Weir | 521 c324 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a perfectly good point. It does not have to be with Tesco. It could be with...
Mike Weir | 521 c324 (Link to this contribution) I made that point with respect to my own constituency earlier and the hon. Gentleman is quite right....
David Anderson | 521 c327 (Link to this contribution) I think that that question should be put to Ministers. Nothing else will change: the need is still t...
David Anderson | 521 c326 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is clearly under the misapprehension that public service is about nothing more th...
David Mowat | 521 c326-7 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree that the sustainability of the post office network is a valuable public service, wh...
David Anderson | 521 c325-6 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the debate. Like the hon. Member for Colchester (Bob Russell), I do not want to see the pr...
David Mowat | 521 c326 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has talked of the way in which the IBA works, which seems to have resulted in thr...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c319 (Link to this contribution) I think we are getting slightly confused about the matter. There is cherry-picking within Royal Mail...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 521 c319 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is shameful that Royal Mail's demise has been caused pa...
Lord Bruce of Bennachie | 521 c319 (Link to this contribution) Most of us have visited post offices in recent weeks. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Royal Mail ...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 521 c318 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman would agree that there is a guarantee of public services built into t...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 521 c319 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman's point, and I have a great deal of sympathy with it. It is a great shame ...
Russell Brown | 521 c319 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the hon. Lady is saying about the UK gold-plating EU legislation, but when the liberalis...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 521 c319 (Link to this contribution) I am struggling to answer the hon. Gentleman's point, because it is a bit technical. I am looking ov...
Mark Durkan | 521 c318 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady says that legislation is not the appropriate way to make provisions about commercial r...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 521 c318 (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy with my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) and with...
Ian Murray | 521 c317-8 (Link to this contribution) As I said in response to my right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane), nothing astoni...
Damian Collins | 521 c323 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that, as discussed in Committee, the Post Office remains the owne...
Mike Weir | 521 c322-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a good point. I have read that report, which I found to be an excellent report, ...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c323 (Link to this contribution) Another point is that there seems to be a massive assumption that these independently-owned post off...
Mike Weir | 521 c323 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with that, as I think Post Office Ltd will be very much the junior partner in the neg...
Lindsay Roy | 521 c324 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Post Office Ltd is the junior partner in relation to some retail ou...
Mike Weir | 521 c323-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a reasonable point. The problem is that it is not at all clear what mutuali...
Alan Reid | 521 c320 (Link to this contribution) I agree that much more Government and local government work has to go to the Post Office, but can th...
Mike Weir | 521 c319-20 (Link to this contribution) Let me remark in passing that I have spent many years standing in this spot defending post offices. ...
Fiona O'Donnell | 521 c322 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has referred several times to the Public Bill Committee's report, but I wonder wh...
Mike Weir | 521 c320-2 (Link to this contribution) The Government in Scotland will have discussions with the Post Office, in the same way as the Govern...
Lord Bruce of Bennachie | 521 c316 (Link to this contribution) One problem for the people's bank, and for using post offices as a branch network for joint-stock ba...
Ian Murray | 521 c316 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted by the hon. Gentleman's intervention, but I repeat the point that I made in my interv...
Bob Russell | 521 c316 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) was a former Minister and had 13 years in which he...
Ian Murray | 521 c315 (Link to this contribution) I decided a long time ago that I would stop being astonished by the Liberal Democrats, and just take...
Denis MacShane | 521 c315 (Link to this contribution) That is a fundamental point. In France, Germany, which has been cited, and Switzerland, such banks a...
Fiona O'Donnell | 521 c315 (Link to this contribution) Given how many post offices are running at a loss and how many are on the market, does my hon. Frien...
Ian Murray | 521 c314-5 (Link to this contribution) I support the new clause. I must say at the outset that I do not share a flat with the hon. Member f...
Brian Binley | 521 c313-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that supportive intervention. That gives us even more reason to ensur...
Ian Murray | 521 c313 (Link to this contribution) It is not inconceivable that a company such as Deutsche Post could buy Royal Mail. When such a trans...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 521 c317 (Link to this contribution) My understanding, on which I stand to be corrected, is that the problem is not that the two companie...
Ian Murray | 521 c317 (Link to this contribution) We are proposing protection for the post office network in any fashion, which the Minister point bla...
Ian Davidson | 521 c317 (Link to this contribution) Is this possibly the first time on the record that a Liberal Democrat has blamed the European Union ...
Ian Murray | 521 c317 (Link to this contribution) But as we have already discussed, Germany seems to have found a loophole in that legislation, so I d...
Ian Murray | 521 c316 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes his point clearly.
Ed Davey | 521 c317 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for mentioning Deutsche Post and its legal protections. He and h...
Ian Murray | 521 c316 (Link to this contribution) I will just make a little progress, because many hon. Members want to speak. The Bill does not safe...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c316 (Link to this contribution) On the point made by the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce), given that banks are closing ...
Ian Murray | 521 c316 (Link to this contribution) We must leave no stone unturned in looking to provide services through the post office network, so t...
David Mowat | 521 c335 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the need to keep the 11,500 post offices open, which is exactly what the Bill is doing,...
Margaret Curran | 521 c335-6 (Link to this contribution) I disagree fundamentally with the hon. Gentleman. First, it is not the IBA that has led to post offi...
Mark Durkan | 521 c336-7 (Link to this contribution) Like many others who have spoken in this debate, I completely opposed the direction of travel of the...
Jim Shannon | 521 c337-8 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that as postmasters and postmistresses retire and opportunities become...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 521 c335 (Link to this contribution) I totally endorse what the hon. Lady is saying, particularly about post offices in deprived inner-ci...
Margaret Curran | 521 c335 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good point and I associate myself strongly with it. Things are very difficult as they...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 521 c338 (Link to this contribution) I think we are all on the same page in wanting a long agreement. Donald Brydon has said that he woul...
Mark Durkan | 521 c338 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept the hon. Gentleman's point. The proposed agreement would make a difference not just f...
Mark Durkan | 521 c338 (Link to this contribution) We are not worried about why we should impose an agreement of 10 years; most of us are worried about...
Brian Binley | 521 c339 (Link to this contribution) Whatever happens, the recognition of 900 mail centres means that whoever buys Royal Mail will have t...
Mark Durkan | 521 c339 (Link to this contribution) I fully take the hon. Gentleman's welcome point. That is precisely what we as legislators are being ...
Russell Brown | 521 c339 (Link to this contribution) I sincerely hope that the Minister responds to my hon. Friend, but I think the answer to the questio...
Mark Durkan | 521 c339 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is exactly right and he reinforces a point that was made earlier. The real issue is t...
Richard Graham | 521 c338 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if legal advice to the Minister is that it is not practical to le...
Mark Durkan | 521 c338-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may be easily reassured on that point, but I certainly would not be and I doubt w...
Mark Durkan | 521 c338 (Link to this contribution) I accept fully the point that my hon. Friend on the Front Bench is making. In the absence of other i...
Ian Davidson | 521 c340-1 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak as the Chair of the Scottish Affairs Committee, rather than as a constituency Member...
Gordon Banks | 521 c339 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree with the people who believe that it may not be legal pressure that prevent...
Damian Collins | 521 c341 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not think that the case might be argued the other way? In taking Royal Mail ...
Ian Davidson | 521 c341 (Link to this contribution) No, we took exactly the opposite view. We accept that Royal Mail would probably want to have the pos...
Richard Graham | 521 c341 (Link to this contribution) I was not quite sure who the pig and chicken were in the hon. Gentleman's analogy. However, on the r...
Ian Davidson | 521 c341-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not agree with that at all, because I do not believe that a structure will be established f...
Ed Davey | 521 c342 (Link to this contribution) Philately has got me to my feet. I am looking forward to reading the Scottish Affairs Committee's fu...
Ian Davidson | 521 c342-3 (Link to this contribution) The Committee unanimously welcomed the points that the Minister was making about the access criteria...
Alan Reid | 521 c343 (Link to this contribution) I share the hon. Gentleman's anxieties. However, as we discussed in Committee, the problem was frami...
Ian Davidson | 521 c343 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman serves with me on the Scottish Affairs Committee. As he will remember, we were no...
Ian Davidson | 521 c343-4 (Link to this contribution) That seems like a very constructive way of looking at the issue. I am not sure about the practicalit...
Sarah Newton | 521 c343 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree that the location of post offices is vital. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that res...
Neil Carmichael | 521 c346 (Link to this contribution) Having seen several post offices close in my constituency before the general election, I welcome the...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c346-7 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not. The point of the IBA is to allow for an established foundation so that post offices ca...
Robin Walker | 521 c345 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the alternative of bringing credit unions into post offices is v...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c345-6 (Link to this contribution) It certainly is an alternative and I take it on board as an option. However, in and of itself, the p...
Damian Collins | 521 c347 (Link to this contribution) As we have discussed, that is the inherent attractiveness of the Post Office and one of its great ba...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c348 (Link to this contribution) We have seen recently that Tesco could compete with the Post Office, and have heard in this debate t...
Jesse Norman | 521 c347 (Link to this contribution) Obviously the details are some way from being decided, and the model for how the Post Office will be...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c347 (Link to this contribution) As a member of the Labour and Co-operative party, I always have a sense of warmth towards mutuals an...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c344-5 (Link to this contribution) I support new—cross-party—clause 2 as part of a damage limitation exercise in opposition to this Bil...
Damian Collins | 521 c348 (Link to this contribution) Even the major supermarkets—and probably all the major bank branches—combined do not reach the scale...
Richard Fuller | 521 c327 (Link to this contribution) I should like some clarification. We are using the phrase ““inter-business agreement””, but the hon....
Russell Brown | 521 c327 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) has mentioned that £1.3 billion twice, but the fa...
David Anderson | 521 c328-9 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. It is strange to hear Liberal Democrats who, justifiably...
David Anderson | 521 c328 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more. As was pointed out by the hon. Member for Colchester, the post office networ...
Lindsay Roy | 521 c328 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that subsidy is often viewed in a negative context, and that profit is gau...
David Anderson | 521 c328 (Link to this contribution) That is true, but the managers have not made the best of the deal that they have been given. They ha...
Richard Graham | 521 c328 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the other side of the equation, which focuses on the agreement be...
David Anderson | 521 c327-8 (Link to this contribution) I want the IBA to give sub-postmasters the security that they have asked for. They say that it will ...
Richard Fuller | 521 c328 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way to me again. There is an issue here that specifically conc...
Eilidh Whiteford | 521 c330 (Link to this contribution) I am very sympathetic to the argument for increasing the range of services and products available in...
Viscount Thurso | 521 c329-30 (Link to this contribution) First, I apologise to the House for having been absent for two of the contributions to this debate. ...
Chris Evans | 521 c331 (Link to this contribution) I support the new clause. I noticed that the hon. Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) was temporaril...
Viscount Thurso | 521 c330-1 (Link to this contribution) I share the hon. Lady's concern, but I do not believe that is insurmountable. In my constituency, I ...
Chris Evans | 521 c331-2 (Link to this contribution) Oh, we are full up, are we? It was John Major who said that in 50 years from now Britain will still...
Richard Graham | 521 c332 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman clarify where he thinks the risk to our sub-postmasters is coming from? I ha...
Speaker | 521 c332 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are discussing a new clause on inter-company agreements, so the hon. Gentleman's intervent...
Chris Evans | 521 c332 (Link to this contribution) I know Quedgeley post office, because I was the Labour party candidate in Cheltenham in 2005. I know...
Chris Evans | 521 c332 (Link to this contribution) I will not be the postmaster, as I have enough on my plate as it is. As I was saying, we seem to ha...
Chris Evans | 521 c333 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but my major argument to that is that if we are taking business away, we are condemning post of...
Damian Collins | 521 c333 (Link to this contribution) The existence of business agreements between the Post Office and the Royal Mail has been no guarante...
Chris Evans | 521 c332-3 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I agree with the hon. Gentleman completely. As a Welsh MP, I know that this Government have cer...
Jonathan Edwards | 521 c332 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will be aware that 71.3% of Welsh post offices are in rural areas, which compares...
Margaret Curran | 521 c334 (Link to this contribution) I strongly agree, because that goes to the heart of the protections that are required and explains w...
Margaret Curran | 521 c333-4 (Link to this contribution) I begin by declaring an interest: I am pleased to be a member of the Communication Workers Union. I ...
Cathy Jamieson | 521 c334 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree with me and with the other members of the Scottish Affairs Committee on ou...
Margaret Curran | 521 c335 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the hon. Gentleman make similar points to a number of Members. I fundamentally di...
Ian Davidson | 521 c348 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps it would be helpful if we clarified whether it would be possible, without an IBA, for Royal ...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c348 (Link to this contribution) No, we are portraying a picture of the future in which that could happen. Royal Mail Group has admit...
Brian Binley | 521 c356 (Link to this contribution) I noted that the Minister said, ““I do not believe”” and not, ““It is a fact””. His not wishing to i...
Ed Davey | 521 c355-6 (Link to this contribution) I will, of course, address that in detail, if the hon. Lady will let me. However, I first want to st...
Nia Griffith | 521 c355 (Link to this contribution) If this makes such good commercial sense, what is the problem with putting it in the Bill? It will s...
Ed Davey | 521 c354-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) for sparking the debate, and particul...
Nia Griffith | 521 c350-4 (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, there is an existing IBA. The question is: what is the timetable for the privati...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 521 c350 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that the inter-business agreement will come into place before any agreement is s...
Nia Griffith | 521 c349-50 (Link to this contribution) To most people in this country, the Royal Mail and the Post Office are synonymous. To them, the matc...
Tom Blenkinsop | 521 c348-9 (Link to this contribution) There is also the assumption that the Royal Mail will stay at its current size and not contract whol...
Ed Davey | 521 c356 (Link to this contribution) I reassure my hon. Friend that I will be coming to this legal point and that I wish to address the r...
Ed Davey | 521 c356 (Link to this contribution) I was coming to that, so I am delighted that my hon. Friend intervened just then. There is a legal b...
Brian Binley | 521 c356 (Link to this contribution) May I press the Minister further? Will he now confirm that there is no legal or statutory reason as ...
Ed Davey | 521 c357 (Link to this contribution) I have made it very clear that it would be open to serious legal challenge and I believe that we mus...
Malcolm Wicks | 521 c357 (Link to this contribution) Let us put to one side the earlier amusing moment where a radical said that he needed a precedent be...
Malcolm Wicks | 521 c357-8 (Link to this contribution) As a former Minister in the Minister's Department, although not one with responsibility for this are...
Ed Davey | 521 c356-7 (Link to this contribution) Let me just finish the point, because there is a legal barrier. This also addresses the point made b...
Ed Davey | 521 c357 (Link to this contribution) Let us be clear that the commitment that Royal Mail has made is that the refreshed or new IBA would ...
Brian Binley | 521 c358 (Link to this contribution) We are moving on; will he give way?
Ed Davey | 521 c358 (Link to this contribution) This Government are governing. It was the previous Government who moved away from taking action on R...
Lord Beith | 521 c359 (Link to this contribution) The more I read the new clause, the objective of which I fully support, the more concerned I am that...
Ed Davey | 521 c358 (Link to this contribution) Let me take my hon. Friend back to the point I was making about articles 101, 4(3) and 102. The poin...
Brian Binley | 521 c358 (Link to this contribution) I want to pin the Minister down, because it is vital that we do. He said that there was a ““signific...
Ed Davey | 521 c358 (Link to this contribution) No, not yet. For example, Post Office Ltd is piloting branches that offer greater flexibility and c...
Ian Davidson | 521 c359 (Link to this contribution) Could we possibly agree, first, that the EU is a bad thing? Secondly, is the Minister telling us tha...
Ed Davey | 521 c359 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Let us be absolutely clear: the problem with Royal Mail ha...
Ed Davey | 521 c378 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress, as I have a lot of amendments to deal with. I was grateful to my hon....
Gordon Banks | 521 c378 (Link to this contribution) No, but what I am going to do is ask the Minister whether he agrees with the Secretary of State that...
Ed Davey | 521 c378-9 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the hon. Gentleman's amendments is that they are very confused. For example, in pro...
Ed Davey | 521 c389-90 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. We have had an excellent debate on the Bil...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 521 c375-6 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to speak to amendments 29 and 30. I full...
Mike Weir | 521 c377 (Link to this contribution) The Act refers to"““persons living in rural…areas””," but my amendment refers to businesses. That i...
Ed Davey | 521 c376-7 (Link to this contribution) Because of the shortage of time, I shall begin with a brief overview of our reaction to the new clau...
Ed Davey | 521 c377 (Link to this contribution) It has been well established that, in the Act, ““persons”” also means businesses. On amendments 12 ...
Damian Collins | 521 c394 (Link to this contribution) Moya Greene, the chief executive of Royal Mail, said to the Bill Committee:"““I think that if the Bi...
John Denham | 521 c394-5 (Link to this contribution) I understand those remarks, but I believe that it would be possible for a Government who wished to d...
Ed Davey | 521 c393 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is incorrect on this point. It was a Labour Minister in the 1960s—Tony Wedg...
John Denham | 521 c393-4 (Link to this contribution) But the evidence remains, some 50 years later, that that did not happen. My point remains—public own...
Ian Davidson | 521 c390 (Link to this contribution) Surely the Minister does not mean ““nationalist emblems”” can be placed; can he assure us that Alex ...
Ed Davey | 521 c390 (Link to this contribution) Let me anticipate the hon. Gentleman, because the concerns that the nationalist parties expressed in...
John Denham | 521 c392-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall make a few remarks on Third Reading to summarise where we are as a result of the discussions...
Ed Davey | 521 c391-2 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman had been present for our debates in Committee, he would have found that his Op...
Ed Davey | 521 c390-1 (Link to this contribution) I cannot tell the hon. Gentleman how delighted I am to be able to give him that reassurance. It was ...
Tony Lloyd | 521 c368 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman is helping the House, will he help me by saying whether there is a duty on Ofc...
Mike Weir | 521 c368 (Link to this contribution) There is a duty on Ofcom to ensure the universal service. However, as I was trying to explain, the p...
Tony Lloyd | 521 c368 (Link to this contribution) What the hon. Gentleman is confirming is that there is, in fact, no duty on Ofcom other than a retro...
Speaker | 521 c366 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Mike Weir | 521 c366-7 (Link to this contribution) New clause 4 and amendments 11, standing in my name, relate to concerns about the universal service ...
Ed Davey | 521 c367-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will know from the debate in Committee that there is the potential for Ofcom to p...
Mike Weir | 521 c368 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is forgetting my point. If a privatised operator has got rid of many of the profitable ...
Nia Griffith | 521 c361 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman needs to remember that when we debated how to support the post office network and...
Mike Weir | 521 c366 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Bob Russell | 521 c361 (Link to this contribution) I provided the hon. Lady with an opportunity to apologise for Labour's mistakes, but an apology was ...
Gordon Banks | 521 c372-5 (Link to this contribution) No, it is not, and I will come to that if I have time. The Minister will be aware of my office's del...
Speaker | 521 c375 (Link to this contribution) Order. There are just a couple of minutes before I will invite the Minister to speak. I am sorry tha...
Gordon Banks | 521 c371-2 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to amendments 23 to 26, which we have tabled. Amendments 23 and 24 are similar to th...
Alan Reid | 521 c372 (Link to this contribution) I point out to the hon. Gentleman that clause 33(7)(a) states that the review of the minimum require...
Mike Weir | 521 c370-1 (Link to this contribution) I reiterate that the hon. Gentleman may have a chance to vote for that later and to help the Ministe...
Alan Reid | 521 c371 (Link to this contribution) As I said in my interventions on the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir), I hope that the Minister takes...
Alan Reid | 521 c370 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again. I reinforce my earlier point that I am con...
Mike Weir | 521 c369-70 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is perfectly right. I hope that he will follow up that strong support for the pro...
Alan Reid | 521 c369 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has a point. Although the USO for parcels is currently only five days, and the Bi...
Mike Weir | 521 c368-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I would put it a different way. There is no effective sanction available to Ofcom to deal wi...
Fiona O'Donnell | 521 c396-7 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Speaker, for this short but sweet opportunity to speak on Third Reading. I am sure th...
Richard Fuller | 521 c395-6 (Link to this contribution) Royal Mail is, first and foremost, a people business. It is a people business, or it is no business ...
Fiona O'Donnell | 521 c396 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that part of the reason workers go the extra distance is that they are...
Richard Fuller | 521 c396 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not agree. I believe that they do so because they have in their hearts a sense of public se...
Ed Davey | 521 c359 (Link to this contribution) The commitment that I have given today is what the hon. Gentleman and his Select Committee were seek...
Anas Sarwar | 521 c359 (Link to this contribution) Following on from the hon. Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley) in wanting to pin you down—the M...
Bob Russell | 521 c360-1 (Link to this contribution) When we read Hansard tomorrow, we shall see that there was at least one commitment—if not more—in th...
Ed Davey | 521 c360 (Link to this contribution) I think I should definitely be advised to share neither those private conversations nor the legal ad...
Bob Russell | 521 c361 (Link to this contribution) By all means, if the hon. Lady wants to apologise.
Nia Griffith | 521 c361 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Ed Davey | 521 c359 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is a new Member of the House and he might know that there are various protocols o...
Sarah Newton | 521 c360 (Link to this contribution) I am very much reassured by the clear commitment we have heard today that it is the Government's int...
Ed Davey | 521 c360 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady cannot have been listening. What I have said today is absolutely clear: a commitment h...
Bob Russell | 521 c295 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention because the thrust and purpose of my new clause is exactly to en...
Michael Connarty | 521 c306 (Link to this contribution) I have no problem doing that. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman has been in the House when I ...
Bob Russell | 521 c302 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry if the hon. Gentleman is not aware of my views on the Bill. I thought that I had made it ...
Ian Murray | 521 c315 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that point. The hon. Member for Northampton South was clear abou...
David Mowat | 521 c316 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Gordon Banks | 521 c338 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the argument put by the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) is...
Mark Durkan | 521 c339 (Link to this contribution) I join my hon. Friend in that suspicion; no doubt the Treasury is asking where the proposal will go ...
David Anderson | 521 c327 (Link to this contribution) We may compare the IBA to a sticking plaster covering a wound, but if it continues following privati...
Ian Murray | 521 c391 (Link to this contribution) The debate about new clause 2 was certainly robust. Can the Minister give the House a cast-iron guar...
Nia Griffith | 521 c359-60 (Link to this contribution) It still is not at all clear what the Minister is giving away. We have absolutely no idea what agree...
Bob Russell | 521 c301 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend. If he is called to speak in the debate, I hope he will el...
David Anderson | 521 c302 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way; he is being very generous. Does he agree that neither the...
Gordon Banks | 521 c324 (Link to this contribution) On the hon. Gentleman's point about doing a deal with a supermarket, does he agree that there is abs...
David Mowat | 521 c334 (Link to this contribution) I have difficulty understanding how the continuation of the IBA can be more powerful than the policy...
Mike Weir | 521 c357 (Link to this contribution) I understand that after the Bill is passed, if that indeed happens, one company—and only one—that ha...
Russell Brown | 521 c294 (Link to this contribution) I can understand that the hon. Gentleman is unhappy with what happened under the previous Government...
Bob Russell | 521 c294 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may well be right. I might come on to the point about pressing down prices in the...
Bob Russell | 521 c294-5 (Link to this contribution) As ever, my hon. Friend makes an important and valid point. Those who inherit this Bill, when it bec...
Mike Hancock | 521 c295 (Link to this contribution) Unlike my hon. Friend, I am not an enthusiastic supporter of the legislation. What will his position...
Bob Russell | 521 c293 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. When social historians come to study the Post...
Mike Weir | 521 c293 (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to what the hon. Gentleman has said. The inter-business agreement is an ag...
Bob Russell | 521 c298-9 (Link to this contribution) No. As the interventions have indicated, the post office network is still fragile. Some 9,000 sub-p...
Bob Russell | 521 c298 (Link to this contribution) I need to move on, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) suggested. However, in ...
Michael Connarty | 521 c298 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman looks at the record, he will see that the amount spent by the previous Governm...
Bob Russell | 521 c297 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether I am grateful for that intervention, but if the hon. Gentleman is saying that ...
Russell Brown | 521 c297 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the hon. Gentleman recognises that TV Licensing is not controlled by Government. The autho...
Bob Russell | 521 c297 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman tempts me to rush to the Library to see whether that information would fill one o...
Bob Russell | 521 c297 (Link to this contribution) I am not in a position to challenge research that other organisations have undertaken. If that is th...
Jonathan Edwards | 521 c297 (Link to this contribution) May I help the hon. Gentleman? Over the weekend, Consumer Focus said that unless there is any progre...
Tony Lloyd | 521 c296 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being very generous in giving way. He began to touch on the importance of the ...
Bob Russell | 521 c296 (Link to this contribution) I am also grateful for that intervention; every intervention so far, with the possible exception of ...
Cathy Jamieson | 521 c296 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, for post offices to be sustained, they need regular work? Is he ...
Bob Russell | 521 c296 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that extremely helpful intervention. Regardless of what we think...
Bob Russell | 521 c294 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has taken a keen interest in this Bill and will know the ins and outs of it far b...
Jim Shannon | 521 c295 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that a 10-year agreement would be a better system for securing the fut...
Robert Smith | 521 c294 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of downstream access that my hon. Friend has been addressing, one thing that the Bill d...
Mike Weir | 521 c295 (Link to this contribution) Is that not the crux of the problem? The Post Office does a lot more than simply service the mail de...
Bob Russell | 521 c295 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes my point for me, so I hope that if we go to a vote he and his colleagues wi...
Lord Beith | 521 c293 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend know that when I went to meet postmen, as I always do at Christmas, I found that...
Bob Russell | 521 c293 (Link to this contribution) I endorse that. I, too, like many right hon. and hon. Members, visited my local sorting office. It i...
Mike Weir | 521 c300 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way; he has been very generous with interventions. He mentione...
Bob Russell | 521 c300 (Link to this contribution) I was up early—true—but the new clause stands in my name, and I am sure that the Minister is aware o...
Bob Russell | 521 c300 (Link to this contribution) I cannot comment on the body language in Committee because I was not there. I tabled the new clause,...
Jim McGovern | 521 c299 (Link to this contribution) May I ask the hon. Gentleman about the 10-year period? Why not one year, or an indefinite period? Ho...
Mike Hancock | 521 c300 (Link to this contribution) I will try to be helpful to my hon. Friend. I do not support the Bill, but I support the new clause ...
Bob Russell | 521 c298 (Link to this contribution) I suggest that the hon. Gentleman discusses that last point with the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash)...
Richard Fuller | 521 c297-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has been so gracious in giving way that I need to go back about four intervention...
Russell Brown | 521 c297 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned the amount of Government work that was taken away from post offices by ...
Bob Russell | 521 c297 (Link to this contribution) No, I have not, but I am sure that the Minister, whom I have not yet won over to my argument, will p...
Bob Russell | 521 c296 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is correct and it is a pity that she was not here during the terms of previous Labour ...
Jim Fitzpatrick | 521 c296-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not challenge the hon. Gentleman's recording of history in that certain Government Departments ...
Brian Binley | 521 c296 (Link to this contribution) Would not this measure make the whole transfer or sale deal much more viable and do much more to gua...
Bob Russell | 521 c295-6 (Link to this contribution) I am bound to say that that was not a very helpful intervention from my hon. Friend, particularly as...
Ed Davey | 521 c309 (Link to this contribution) It is not appropriate for me to comment on the previous management, but I invite my hon. Friend to c...
Brian Binley | 521 c309 (Link to this contribution) I, of course, welcome the Minister's intervention in that respect. I have no wish to vilify the curr...
Brian Binley | 521 c309 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the interjection. What an awful statement for somebody concerned with a business t...
Mike Weir | 521 c310 (Link to this contribution) I have some experience of the Post Office in my constituency, and a long-term temporary closure effe...
Margaret Curran | 521 c311 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman draw parallels between his experience of representing rural areas and my exp...
Brian Binley | 521 c311 (Link to this contribution) I share that sentiment—in fact, it is the thrust of my contribution. There is no doubt that urban an...
Damian Collins | 521 c310-1 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem he describes affects not just post offices, but businesse...
Bob Russell | 521 c303 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Speaker. Which Government did what when will be in the history books, so the hon. Gent...
Damian Collins | 521 c303 (Link to this contribution) In the scenario that the hon. Gentleman paints, might it not be possible for the Post Office to say ...
Jim McGovern | 521 c304 (Link to this contribution) May I take the hon. Gentleman back to proposals to reduce costs, and what he said about there being ...
Speaker | 521 c303 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have not talked about anything and I am not giving any commitments on anything, but Mr Russ...
Michael Connarty | 521 c304-5 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately, I have to leave the debate early, because I have to attend the European Scrutiny Comm...
Michael Connarty | 521 c306 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend echoes sentiments that are expressed in every post office and sub-post office when an...
Russell Brown | 521 c305-6 (Link to this contribution) I support my hon. Friend. There is no doubt that any of us who speak to our local sub-postmasters an...
Michael Connarty | 521 c307 (Link to this contribution) It might be useful to read the Bill. That is not in the Bill. It is an under-the-counter promise by ...
Michael Connarty | 521 c307 (Link to this contribution) As I said, the new clause is intended to ameliorate the impact, not to negate it. I would prefer a p...
Michael Connarty | 521 c308 (Link to this contribution) Tomorrow, the Liberal Democrats will find out the value of making various pledges to the public and ...
David Anderson | 521 c308 (Link to this contribution) Has not the Minister just let the cat out of the bag—that the Liberal Democrats, at least those in t...
Michael Connarty | 521 c307 (Link to this contribution) What I am aware of is that the public purse supports an institution in the USA. If the Liberal Democ...
Viscount Thurso | 521 c301 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware that there are many examples of private sector companies splitting to become...
Bob Russell | 521 c302 (Link to this contribution) I need to reflect on what the Labour Government, particularly Lord Mandelson, had in mind, and how t...
Ian Murray | 521 c303 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has been generous in accepting interventions. You talked in response to my hon. F...

Subjects

Contracts for services
Privatisation
Post offices
Postal services
Post Office
Standards
Royal Mail

Legislation

Postal Services Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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