UK Parliament / Open data

Superannuation Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 13 October 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Maude of Horsham. The answering member was Baroness Jowell.
Superannuation Bill. Report stage, not amended in Public Bill Committee. Government new clause 1 debated and agreed to on division (299 votes to 240). Clause 1 amendment negatived on division (238 votes to 316). Third reading debate agreed to on division (309 votes to 242), and Bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

516 c339-73 

Session

2010-12

Department

Cabinet Office

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Superannuation Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 58-EN also published.
Thursday, 15 July 2010
Bills
House of Commons
Superannuation Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes also published (HL Bill 22-EN)
Thursday, 14 October 2010
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c341-2 (Link to this contribution) Depending on what the House decides today, some of that uncertainty should be removed. I want Parlia...
Jack Dromey | 516 c342 (Link to this contribution) Widespread concern has been expressed throughout the House about the impact of the Bill on hundreds ...

Show all contributions (67)
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c340-1 (Link to this contribution) In my statement to the House in July and again on Second Reading in September, I made it clear the G...
Stewart Hosie | 516 c341 (Link to this contribution) I understand the logic of the Minister's argument, but I have a constituent who has a business case ...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c339-40 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 516 c339-40 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to take the following:
John McDonnell | 516 c354-5 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman's point, which is valid and valuable. The Bill sets what many believe is a...
Richard Graham | 516 c355-6 (Link to this contribution) I am puzzled about the logic of the Opposition's position this afternoon. At the beginning of the Bi...
David Ward | 516 c354 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman share my concerns about employees beyond those directly affected by the Bill...
Harriett Baldwin | 516 c356 (Link to this contribution) One theme that has come up in all debates on the Bill, including in Committee, was that we want bett...
Richard Graham | 516 c356 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If I may continue where I left off—
Baroness Jowell | 516 c356 (Link to this contribution) Again, I would be grateful if the hon. Gentleman were quite specific on the respects in which the Bi...
Richard Graham | 516 c356 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady asks in which ways the Bill's provisions are better. My understanding is that un...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c356 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Richard Graham | 516 c356 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the right hon. Lady for the third time.
Speaker | 516 c356 (Link to this contribution) Order. Is the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) giving way?
Jeremy Wright | 516 c356 (Link to this contribution) No, don't! She is being discourteous.
Richard Graham | 516 c356 (Link to this contribution) The point that I had reached was that many in the House clearly agree that civil servants deserve be...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c357-8 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, Mr Deputy Speaker, I want to make one or two comments at the end of wha...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c358 (Link to this contribution) For the record, I think I have made the position absolutely clear. The Minister's words were more of...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c358-9 (Link to this contribution) This is not a debating game. The Bill is deadly serious for hundreds of thousands of hard-working, d...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c367-8 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. The Bill has been debated extensively on S...
John Hemming | 516 c368 (Link to this contribution) In a sense, it is sad not to see massive press interest in an issue that is very important to many p...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c368 (Link to this contribution) I agree with much that the Minister said, particularly the extent to which the prospects for negotia...
John McDonnell | 516 c368-9 (Link to this contribution) Much has been said about the need for the unions to negotiate. Let me be clear about the unions' pos...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c346 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady describes the powers that we are seeking in the new clause as unbridled, but doe...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c346 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak against Government new clause 1 and in favour of the amendments standing in my name an...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c343-6 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend will allow me I shall come to that later, because I want to talk in a little more ...
Elizabeth Truss | 516 c343 (Link to this contribution) In response to the points raised by Opposition Members regarding the difference between the deal tha...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c346 (Link to this contribution) I accept that only in part, in that the scheme set out in the Bill, with the caps, is substantially ...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c342 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely and unequivocally, yes. I shall talk a little about the process we have been through and ...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c343 (Link to this contribution) Yes, indeed. If the result of the process that we have been through with the Bill is that it makes a...
John Hemming | 516 c343 (Link to this contribution) Also in Committee, Dusty Amroliwala, the civil servant responsible for handling the scheme, said tha...
John Hemming | 516 c342 (Link to this contribution) In Committee, the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) made some good points about in...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c348 (Link to this contribution) I shall make progress. Many Back Benchers want to speak in the debate and the hon. Gentleman will ha...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c348 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that clarification, but as nearly 30 years have passed since the S...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c348 (Link to this contribution) To be absolutely clear, the Superannuation Act states, at section 1(3):"““ Before making any scheme”...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c347 (Link to this contribution) Let me come back on that point. When I was responsible for the negotiations, they were long, as the ...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c346 (Link to this contribution) I am not talking about the scheme; I am talking about the power in the new clause for the Government...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c347 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman reads the amendment carefully, it will be clear to him that it is intended not...
John Hemming | 516 c347 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady's amendment (a) would mean that the unions would have to consult their members i...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c347 (Link to this contribution) The approach is intended to ensure that what appears in the Bill when it receives Royal Assent repre...
John Hemming | 516 c347 (Link to this contribution) The amendment states that the Minister must lay"““a report of the consultations that have taken plac...
John McDonnell | 516 c351-2 (Link to this contribution) Following the final comments by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming), I fully agre...
John Hemming | 516 c351 (Link to this contribution) I thank the shadow Minister for saying what her objectives are. In the past, the Opposition have oft...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c351 (Link to this contribution) We want the Bill to have full and proper parliamentary scrutiny in both Houses of Parliament.
John Hemming | 516 c350-1 (Link to this contribution) The question is about what we add to the deficit—the actual cash costs. That is the key. The proposa...
Michael McCann | 516 c350 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman keeps using the figure of six and two thirds, but will he concede that that is wh...
John Hemming | 516 c350 (Link to this contribution) I accept the shadow Minister's point that the Opposition's proposals are the same as those in the ne...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c350 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman explain why the proposals in the Bill provide a better deal for low-paid civ...
John Hemming | 516 c350 (Link to this contribution) This has been a rather depressing debate, because the Opposition have demonstrated ““oppositionism””...
Baroness Jowell | 516 c349-50 (Link to this contribution) The Opposition would very much welcome full and further scrutiny, as the negotiations are ongoing. ...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c349 (Link to this contribution) To be absolutely clear, I am advised that if the new clause were not agreed to and the Bill remained...
John McDonnell | 516 c353-4 (Link to this contribution) I meant 90% of the trade union members with whom the Government are negotiating. May I tell the Min...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c353 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman asserts that the POA and PCS represent more than 90% of the people affected, but ...
John McDonnell | 516 c353 (Link to this contribution) I do not believe that many civil servants who will be affected by job losses believe that the Govern...
John Hemming | 516 c353 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that this is not ideologically driven but driven merely by the diffic...
John McDonnell | 516 c353 (Link to this contribution) I will come to that. There has been a litany of disasters during these negotiations. If we want to ...
John Hemming | 516 c353 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the fact that the Government are inserting a new clause that pre...
John McDonnell | 516 c352 (Link to this contribution) I do. I will come to that in a few minutes. The position of the unions in the Public Bill Committee...
Harriett Baldwin | 516 c352 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the hon. Gentleman's point of view on this. Does he believe that it is possible f...
John McDonnell | 516 c352 (Link to this contribution) That very civil servant's advice landed the last Government in court, where they lost. I met him in ...
John Hemming | 516 c352 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman recall from the Committee that the senior civil servant responsible for the ...
Harriett Baldwin | 516 c354 (Link to this contribution) May I ask again the question that I asked earlier? Can the hon. Gentleman see a way for the PCS to a...
John McDonnell | 516 c354 (Link to this contribution) Yes I can, and the PCS has written to the Minister again recently asking for meetings. I believe tha...
Lord Maude of Horsham | 516 c342 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is completely right: there has to be flexibility. That is why I have always said that...

Subjects

Conditions of employment
Civil service
Employment
Redundancy pay
Public consultation
Redundancy
Trade unions
Public and Commercial Services Union

Legislation

Superannuation Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
Back to top