UK Parliament / Open data

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 11 October 2010, in the House of Commons, led by David Gauke. The answering member was Angela Eagle.
Finance (No. 2) Bill. Second reading debate agreed to on question. Bill committed to a Public Bill Committee, ordered that the Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

516 c50-126 

Session

2010-12

Department

Treasury

Legislative stage

Second reading

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber
Finance (No. 2) Bill. Explanatory Notes to Clauses 1 to 33 also published.
Wednesday, 15 September 2010
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Julian Smith | 516 c89-91 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make my maiden speech, Mr Deputy Speaker. I think I am th...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 516 c111 (Link to this contribution) It would be a great privilege to give way to my hon. Friend.

Show all contributions (175)
Louise Mensch | 516 c111 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a typically eloquent and masterful speech. Does he agree that he has done t...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 516 c111 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has put it absolutely correctly and wisely: people need to go what is going on. ““Tru...
David Rutley | 516 c111-4 (Link to this contribution) I think the phrase is, ““Follow that.”” What an amazing tour de force. I congratulate my hon. Friend...
Claire O'Neill | 516 c114-5 (Link to this contribution) I join in the congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on h...
Nadhim Zahawi | 516 c115 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that, because of that emergency Budget, we are still able, although we are...
Kelvin Hopkins | 516 c115-6 (Link to this contribution) I am listening with interest to the hon. Lady. She said that the Government did not introduce tax me...
Claire O'Neill | 516 c116-7 (Link to this contribution) I would debate regressive and progressive taxation and the question of income or expenditure with th...
Charlie Elphicke | 516 c117-8 (Link to this contribution) I wish to add my congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith), ...
Brian Binley | 516 c125 (Link to this contribution) What will my hon. Friend do, therefore, to ensure that banks provide the money to generate the growt...
Mary MacLeod | 516 c118 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that a reduction in corporation tax is a way to encourage more small busin...
Charlie Elphicke | 516 c118-9 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, yes. The previous Government were planning to increase corporation tax on smaller busine...
Kelvin Hopkins | 516 c118 (Link to this contribution) I entirely accept the need to sustain small businesses, but small businesses live off two things: fi...
Justine Greening | 516 c124 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman should direct his question at his colleagues, who had planned the capital cuts th...
Chris Leslie | 516 c119-23 (Link to this contribution) As the astute observer may have noticed by now, the Bill is a largely inherited set of technical mea...
Justine Greening | 516 c123-4 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the new shadow Treasury team to their roles. Obviously, I have had experience of debating ...
Lord Mann | 516 c124 (Link to this contribution) I hope the hon. Lady did not miss the other part of my contribution, which was intended to expose th...
Justine Greening | 516 c124-5 (Link to this contribution) I decided to pick out the piece in which the hon. Gentleman talked about his party, which he obvious...
Chris Evans | 516 c106-8 (Link to this contribution) As this is the third Finance Bill that we have debated in the House this year, one could say that Fi...
Sheila Gilmore | 516 c104-5 (Link to this contribution) The whole matter is very much one of degree, not either/or. However, one other interesting differenc...
George Freeman | 516 c105-6 (Link to this contribution) I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on the magn...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 516 c110-1 (Link to this contribution) That is put in an appropriately Nelsonian way. Of course we should sail the ship of state independen...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 516 c109-10 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on a speech that was e...
Charlie Elphicke | 516 c110 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his generous comments about our desire to buy our port. As far as Europe ...
Justine Greening | 516 c125-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point, and I am sure that he is aware of how clause 5 ensures that ...
Stewart Hosie | 516 c88 (Link to this contribution) I understand perfectly well that ““to do business”” is a better phrase than ““to enter into contract...
Charlie Elphicke | 516 c88 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that that provision is fairly well understood: ““to do business”” is a wider phr...
Speaker | 516 c88 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before I call the next speaker, who will be Julian Smith, I remind hon. Members that his is a...
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c93 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady not agree that competitive corporation tax would attract international investment...
Alison McGovern | 516 c91-3 (Link to this contribution) First, may I congratulate the hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on his fine maiden sp...
Alison McGovern | 516 c93 (Link to this contribution) We have competitive corporation tax. The hon. Gentleman is right that we must play on the global sta...
David Simpson | 516 c83 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman said, we understand that banks are running a business, but small businesses to...
Stewart Hosie | 516 c84-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley), and particularly to co...
Brian Binley | 516 c83-4 (Link to this contribution) Of course it does. Clauses and conditions for small businesses are now one of the major off-putting ...
Bill Esterson | 516 c96-7 (Link to this contribution) I want to start by discussing some of the comments made by the hon. Member for Watford (Richard Harr...
Lord Harrington of Watford | 516 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend, and of course I agree with him. Our part of Hertfordshire is rapidly becomin...
James Clappison | 516 c95 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend's mention of Elstree studios tempts me to intervene. As he knows, they are in my cons...
Lord Harrington of Watford | 516 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) Well, the cut cost in excess of £300 million, and it is common sense that people do not change spend...
Bill Esterson | 516 c97-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point that is often made by Conservative Members, but if the p...
Chris Heaton-Harris | 516 c97 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not recognise that the Government can grow the economy only with money alrea...
Alison McGovern | 516 c94 (Link to this contribution) I feel moved to defend myself. The point is that a VAT reduction would give the economy an immediate...
Lord Harrington of Watford | 516 c94 (Link to this contribution) I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on making s...
Alison McGovern | 516 c93-4 (Link to this contribution) I merely disagree on the facts. I disagree that we have had an overly high level of corporation tax ...
Charlie Elphicke | 516 c93 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady not note with concern that the UK's high rate of corporation tax, relatively spea...
Brian Binley | 516 c80 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. The truth of the matter is that we have a budget deficit of £70...
Bill Esterson | 516 c80 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the hon. Gentleman's comments about the difficulty that small businesses are having in get...
Brian Binley | 516 c79-80 (Link to this contribution) As the founder of two small businesses, I can tell the hon. Lady that investment benefits are not th...
John Hemming | 516 c80 (Link to this contribution) The Opposition wonder why this Government are in hock to the markets. Does my hon. Friend agree that...
Brian Binley | 516 c80 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. The truth is that the previous Government were so profligate...
Nicholas Dakin | 516 c78 (Link to this contribution) I have given away enough. If the Attlee Government had taken the view that the only solution for de...
Alison McGovern | 516 c79 (Link to this contribution) What would the hon. Gentleman say to the representatives of small businesses in Wirral, to whom I sp...
Brian Binley | 516 c78-9 (Link to this contribution) I cannot let this opportunity pass without saying how good it is to follow the hon. Member for Basse...
Nicholas Dakin | 516 c78 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) will no doubt pick up that point later ...
Brian Binley | 516 c82-3 (Link to this contribution) How I wish I knew the answer—but I am sure that one of the answers is to get the banks' heads togeth...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 516 c82 (Link to this contribution) Many present and past Ministers acknowledged that there was a great need for banks to listen to the ...
Brian Binley | 516 c81-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend's intervention takes us back to a Chancellor of the Exchequer—later Prime Minister—wh...
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c81 (Link to this contribution) I should like to expand on my hon. Friend's point about the national debt. Is it not true that the s...
Brian Binley | 516 c81 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that point of view. This is not just about the size of the national debt; we need to...
Lord Mann | 516 c81 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman tell us where Britain stands on the league table of national debt, compared w...
Brian Binley | 516 c80-1 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will allow me to finish, I will allow him to intervene again. Steady down. Th...
Brian Binley | 516 c80 (Link to this contribution) This is not about whether or not we have a national debt; it is about the size of the national debt ...
Lord Mann | 516 c80 (Link to this contribution) I cannot resist asking the hon. Gentleman whether he is aware of any country in the world, other tha...
Michael McCann | 516 c124 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency over the past 13 years 17 new high schools and more than 50 new primary schools h...
Bill Esterson | 516 c100 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c100 (Link to this contribution) In one moment; I just wanted to draw on your comment about the US economy. You said that it was a mo...
Bill Esterson | 516 c100 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that I did not mention the US economy, but we can check that in Hansard later. I want to p...
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c100 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that I gave way to the hon. Gentleman, because he makes my point. You say that you want to...
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c99-100 (Link to this contribution) I start by welcoming the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) to his party's Front Bench. ...
Sheila Gilmore | 516 c104 (Link to this contribution) I thought I had covered that issue. We are not saying that there is no deficit or that there will be...
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c100-2 (Link to this contribution) Yes, so did he. He seemed to be saying that unless the Government employ everybody in the country, n...
Sheila Gilmore | 516 c102-3 (Link to this contribution) In the course of the debate, yet again, we have heard an awful lot of myths and legends. One of the ...
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c103 (Link to this contribution) Everybody would like to see that investment, but, and this is the point that I tried to make in my s...
Penny Mordaunt | 516 c108-9 (Link to this contribution) Historically, it has been argued that the secrecy surrounding Budget measures has hindered proper sc...
Gordon Birtwistle | 516 c104 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely interested in the fact that you admit that you would have cut the deficit, and I am e...
Speaker | 516 c104 (Link to this contribution) Order. Tempted as I am to answer the questions that are being posed about the deficit, I remind the ...
Stewart Hosie | 516 c77-8 (Link to this contribution) I am listening intently to the hon. Gentleman's speech, but just in case my memory is skewed, can he...
Nicholas Dakin | 516 c77 (Link to this contribution) The ending of universal child benefit is a cut against children and families, and I do not think it ...
Nicholas Dakin | 516 c77 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. She is completely right to suggest that world public o...
Nicholas Dakin | 516 c77 (Link to this contribution) I have already given way. In the summer, the Chancellor was keen to hold up Ireland as an example o...
Stephen Williams | 516 c77 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is seriously suggesting that taking away child benefit from families in the hi...
Nicholas Dakin | 516 c75-6 (Link to this contribution) This is primarily a technical Bill and I support much of the detail in it. For example, the measures...
Nicholas Dakin | 516 c76 (Link to this contribution) I think that there was a large feeling at the Conservative party conference last week that the Conse...
Alison McGovern | 516 c76 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that it is not merely we on the Labour Benches who disagree with the fake ...
Angela Eagle | 516 c57 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in due course, when I have finished.
Kelvin Hopkins | 516 c56 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with what my hon. Friend is saying. Is it not true that those who invest and those ...
Angela Eagle | 516 c56-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right on both points, but he also raises an important issue about what Keynes call...
Angela Eagle | 516 c57 (Link to this contribution) I have given way to the hon. Gentleman before and I want to get on, because I know that there are pe...
Angela Eagle | 516 c56 (Link to this contribution) I think we need to have a much more grown-up discussion about how we ended up facing these economic ...
Angela Eagle | 516 c56 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. If we reach the stage where we have an appropriate analysis of how our ...
Mark Tami | 516 c56 (Link to this contribution) The Government seem to forget that when they were in opposition they promised to match our spending....
Angela Eagle | 516 c56 (Link to this contribution) That is true. Clearly, the Chancellor and Prime Minister are on record, up to and including in 2008,...
Andrew Love | 516 c58 (Link to this contribution) I add my support for my hon. Friend after her elevation to her new position. She mentioned quantitat...
Albert Owen | 516 c58 (Link to this contribution) I welcome my hon. Friend to her new position. Does she agree that there are lessons to be learned fr...
Angela Eagle | 516 c58 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I do think we have to keep a careful eye on what is going on elsewhere in the world. It is clea...
Speaker | 516 c58 (Link to this contribution) Order. This would be a fascinating debate at another time and, perhaps, in another place.
Angela Eagle | 516 c58 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I know whose side I would rather be on in any attempt to rehabilitate ...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 516 c58 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for giving way and add my congratulations on her elevation. It will be a great...
Anne Main | 516 c57 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is this rather long revisiting of first world war history di...
Speaker | 516 c58 (Link to this contribution) Had I noticed anything out of order, I would have been sure to have pointed that out. As it is, I be...
Angela Eagle | 516 c57 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in due course, but not at the moment. I was just saying that the Somme offensive c...
Angela Eagle | 516 c60 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is arguing that we should do the opposite of what the Government decided to do in...
Alison McGovern | 516 c60 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and welcome her to her new role. I am pleased to see one of my...
Angela Eagle | 516 c60 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, that measure was temporary and well signalled in advance—a cut to boost the economy in the ...
Lord Mann | 516 c60 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?
Angela Eagle | 516 c58 (Link to this contribution) It certainly indicates that there is some nervousness and worry about the downturn in what the econo...
Andrew Bridgen | 516 c59 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that the main thing that we can learn from the economy of the Republic of I...
Angela Eagle | 516 c59 (Link to this contribution) I look forward to the debate that will take place within the Government on that, as I can see that L...
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c59 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the hon. Lady to her Front-Bench position. If the 2.5% rise in VAT is so wrong, why was it...
Angela Eagle | 516 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman was not in the House at the time, but the reduction in VAT was part of the fiscal...
Stewart Hosie | 516 c60 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady talks about the fiscal stimulus package working. It did work, of course, and I backed ...
Angela Eagle | 516 c62 (Link to this contribution) I have given way to the hon. Gentleman before, but I shall do so once more.
Lord Mann | 516 c60 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may not be too happy to give way, but first I congratulate her on her appointment. Sh...
Angela Eagle | 516 c60 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend should take account of the regressive nature of VAT and the fact that the Government ...
David Gauke | 516 c61 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way and I am listening carefully to her somewhat gloom-lad...
David Gauke | 516 c50 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. As observant Members will note, this is the...
David Gauke | 516 c50-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes the fair point that there is too much cigarette smuggling, and this is a ma...
Kelvin Hopkins | 516 c50 (Link to this contribution) The Minister mentioned cigarettes. Are the Government going to do anything to tackle the £4 billion ...
David Gauke | 516 c51 (Link to this contribution) The fact is that the measures that the Government have taken have had the support of the IMF, the OE...
Angela Eagle | 516 c51 (Link to this contribution) I should like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister for his kind remarks about me and the n...
David Gauke | 516 c51 (Link to this contribution) I shall tell the hon. Gentleman what would drive down investment: the fear that the Government were ...
Lord Mann | 516 c51 (Link to this contribution) On the Deloitte survey, does the Minister agree that business people make investment decisions based...
David Gauke | 516 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The fact is that the Moody's triple A credit rating was deemed t...
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c52 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the protests that we are hearing from those on the Opposition Benches...
Sajid Javid | 516 c54 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Lady on her new position. The emergency Budget to which she referred was abs...
Angela Eagle | 516 c53 (Link to this contribution) As the Exchequer Secretary has said, the Bill before us is the third Finance Bill that we have had t...
Angela Eagle | 516 c54-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to point out that there are two sides to the deficit reduction equation. Cle...
Kelvin Hopkins | 516 c54 (Link to this contribution) I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend on her appointment to the Front-Bench team and I am pleased to s...
Angela Eagle | 516 c54 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is even more melodramatic in his rewriting of history—his historical revisionism ...
Angela Eagle | 516 c55 (Link to this contribution) I will be happy to give way when I have finished dealing with the point made by the hon. Member for ...
Angela Eagle | 516 c55 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady must recognise that the budget deficits being suffered in all the more advanced econom...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 516 c55 (Link to this contribution) We have the biggest budget deficit in the G20. What does the hon. Lady believe contributed to that? ...
Charlie Elphicke | 516 c56 (Link to this contribution) I would point out to the hon. Lady that the Office for Budget Responsibility says that there is a st...
Angela Eagle | 516 c55 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has also to recall and acknowledge that a lot of the investment spending since 2001 we...
Claire O'Neill | 516 c55 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to welcome the hon. Lady to her new role, as she is one of the more economically li...
Kelvin Hopkins | 516 c66 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to say this, but I was around in 1979, and I remember it very well. The Government at tha...
Mark Simmonds | 516 c66 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a fair point, and I should say two or three things. First, the national insuranc...
Alison McGovern | 516 c66 (Link to this contribution) How will that increased confidence play out in different regions where—for the right reasons, becaus...
Mark Simmonds | 516 c64-5 (Link to this contribution) I draw the House's attention to the Register of Members' Financial Interests. I am aware, as the Go...
Angela Eagle | 516 c63-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is well known for his views on the subject. Neither of the Ministers whom I just quo...
Kelvin Hopkins | 516 c63 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with what my hon. Friend is saying. PCS, Richard Murphy and others have made the si...
Angela Eagle | 516 c62-3 (Link to this contribution) I remember the detailed discussions that we had on that issue in previous Finance Bill debates. The ...
Stewart Hosie | 516 c62 (Link to this contribution) I agree with much of what the hon. Lady has said. Would it not carry more weight, however, if her La...
Mark Simmonds | 516 c66 (Link to this contribution) In a minute, because the hon. Gentleman might be keen to comment on this point. The correlation also...
Kelvin Hopkins | 516 c66 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Anne Main | 516 c73 (Link to this contribution) I am really enjoying the hon. Gentleman's speech as he canters through all the things that he does n...
Stewart Hosie | 516 c69 (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome what the hon. Gentleman is saying about REITs. Some of his Front-Bench colleague...
Mark Simmonds | 516 c69 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the intervention of my hon. Friend, who is absolutely right. If he has an interest...
Lord Mann | 516 c69-70 (Link to this contribution) I know that the Leader of the Opposition is otherwise detained with an important speech at the momen...
Mark Simmonds | 516 c69 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman. That is not a new idea. Many years ago I was chairman of the housin...
Stewart Hosie | 516 c67 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is giving an interesting analysis, which I do not share at all. He spoke about mo...
Mark Simmonds | 516 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention. The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to hear that I do not ...
Paul Uppal | 516 c68-9 (Link to this contribution) I share my hon. Friend's interest in real estate investment trusts. Commercial property is a success...
Mark Simmonds | 516 c67-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right, in a way. I hope that interest rates will remain low for a considerable...
John Redwood | 516 c70 (Link to this contribution) Could the hon. Gentleman explain how the British Government could make the Chinese revalue their cur...
Speaker | 516 c73 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am not responsible for Bassetlaw. Every time the hon. Gentleman says ““you””, he means me. ...
Lord Mann | 516 c73 (Link to this contribution) Well, the majority of the Tory heartlands—they may be former Tory heartlands in future—will get the ...
Lord Mann | 516 c73 (Link to this contribution) It is very simple. You do not make the cuts so fast. You do not decimate small English towns such as...
Stephen Williams | 516 c75 (Link to this contribution) All countries, whether in the EU or elsewhere, are having to put forward measures that are appropria...
Bill Esterson | 516 c75 (Link to this contribution) Is it responsible to follow the policies adopted in the Republic of Ireland, which have seen the def...
Stephen Williams | 516 c74-5 (Link to this contribution) That was a fascinating exposition of small town, small business socialism, a political philosophy th...
Lord Mann | 516 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful that you are not responsible for Bassetlaw, Mr Deputy Speaker. The truth is that ...
Claire O'Neill | 516 c115 (Link to this contribution) As always, my hon. Friend makes an excellent point based on his substantial experience in the busine...
Charlie Elphicke | 516 c118 (Link to this contribution) I would agree with the hon. Gentleman that confidence plays a massive role in our economy—and nowher...
Alec Shelbrooke | 516 c76 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman, but I find it hard to understand how he can say that...
Angela Eagle | 516 c58 (Link to this contribution) I was just about to do so, Mr Deputy Speaker, but suffice it to say that Kitchener's Army became a t...
Angela Eagle | 516 c61-2 (Link to this contribution) That is our starting point as we move forward to judge what the Government will announce in a few da...
Angela Eagle | 516 c61 (Link to this contribution) I am anxious to get on. I have given way a lot and many other Members wish to speak. The Irish exam...
Lord Mann | 516 c71-3 (Link to this contribution) Of course the British Government, cowardly as they are in their relations with China, cannot do so a...
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