UK Parliament / Open data

Finance Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 20 July 2010, in the House of Commons, led by David Gauke. The answering member was Liam Byrne.
Finance Bill. Third reading debate. Agreed on division (322 to 242) and bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

514 c192-243 

Session

2010-12

Department

Treasury

Legislative stage

Third reading

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Finance Bill 2010-12. Explanatory notes also published (Bill 3-EN 2009-10).
Monday, 28 June 2010
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Liam Byrne | 514 c200 (Link to this contribution) Precisely. The Minister could not understand that point from his own Budget, but I shall explain it ...
Sajid Javid | 514 c200 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman quotes ONS statistics, but he will also be aware of how last week the ONS r...

Show all contributions (173)
Liam Byrne | 514 c200 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will intervene again and remind us what happened in Germany and Japan. Wi...
Kelvin Hopkins | 514 c198 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Gauke | 514 c198-9 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I am keen to press on. We have inherited plans to limit tax ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 514 c200 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend referred to the 1940s, when the deficit was massively higher than it is now. Of...
David Gauke | 514 c197-8 (Link to this contribution) This Government have provided greater distributional analysis than any Government have done before. ...
Chris Leslie | 514 c198 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly look closely at the bank levy consultation, but I was looking at the Hansard report...
David Gauke | 514 c198 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman was a Member of the House in the early days of the previous Government, so he kno...
David Gauke | 514 c197 (Link to this contribution) The further forward the projections go, the less reliable the information and evidence on existing m...
Stewart Hosie | 514 c197 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has been telling us about a number of measures that will mitigate the VAT rise, such as...
David Gauke | 514 c196 (Link to this contribution) I will, because the hon. Gentleman has been such an assiduous attender of these debates, but I want ...
Chris Leslie | 514 c196 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. The distributional tables in section A of the Red Book...
David Gauke | 514 c196 (Link to this contribution) Again, I refer the hon. Gentleman to the distributional charts, particularly those that examine thes...
David Gauke | 514 c196 (Link to this contribution) That is our intention. The Chancellor has made it clear that we have no intention of reconsidering t...
Toby Perkins | 514 c196 (Link to this contribution) May I drag the Minister back to his point about the VAT rise being part of a package of measures and...
David Gauke | 514 c195-6 (Link to this contribution) We have taken measures to secure the public finances for the longer term, but we have done so by pro...
Andrew George | 514 c196 (Link to this contribution) I hate to drag the Minister back to VAT, but he moved on from it very swiftly after the shadow Chief...
David Gauke | 514 c192 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. We have enjoyed a lively and wide-ranging ...
David Gauke | 514 c194 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman appears to be raising a perfectly fair point. The OBR was heavily involved ...
David Gauke | 514 c194 (Link to this contribution) If that is the point that the right hon. Gentleman is getting at, I must point out what the OBR made...
David Gauke | 514 c194 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend might well have the answer. One point that we learned from Lord Mandelson in the cour...
Matt Hancock | 514 c194 (Link to this contribution) Is not one explanation the idea that the OBR came forward with growth forecasts that were reasonable...
David Gauke | 514 c195 (Link to this contribution) I shall let the right hon. Gentleman, who was of course a member of that Treasury team, intervene. P...
David Gauke | 514 c195 (Link to this contribution) The fact is that the big risk to growth for this country would have been if we had done nothing abou...
Liam Byrne | 514 c195 (Link to this contribution) I rise with the ambition of being helpful to the Minister as he will not want to knowingly or unknow...
Angela Eagle | 514 c195 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generosity in giving way. On this point about uprating pensions, ...
David Gauke | 514 c193 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. As he knows, with this Budget we have set out...
Andrew George | 514 c193 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way. He refers to the Budget as being both honest and ...
David Gauke | 514 c193 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite sure where the right hon. Gentleman's analysis is coming from. I am not aware that th...
Liam Byrne | 514 c193 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Gentleman leaves the subject of VAT, can he clear up one problem that I came across ...
David Gauke | 514 c193 (Link to this contribution) I give way to a member of that Treasury team.
David Gauke | 514 c194 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is eager to help me. I am sure that this will be a helpful contribution.
Liam Byrne | 514 c194 (Link to this contribution) The matter can be cleared up very quickly. The scorecard on page 40, with which the hon. Gentleman w...
Speaker | 514 c218 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before I call the next speaker, in response to the point of order from Mr Rees-Mogg I stated ...
Mary Creagh | 514 c217-8 (Link to this contribution) I have taken one intervention from the hon. Gentleman, and I am aware that other hon. Members wish t...
Jonathan Edwards | 514 c220 (Link to this contribution) Is not the tragedy of the increase in VAT and its effect on charities the fact that we know that it ...
Andrew George | 514 c218-20 (Link to this contribution) I shall bear your advice in mind, Mr Deputy Speaker, because I know that many right hon. and hon. Me...
Angela Eagle | 514 c221 (Link to this contribution) I am listening to the hon. Gentleman's arguments very carefully. Will he tell us whether he is so di...
Toby Perkins | 514 c221 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Andrew George | 514 c221 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Lady was not listening to my opening remarks when I said that on balance, because t...
Mary Creagh | 514 c216-7 (Link to this contribution) The beauty of the child trust fund is that both those things happened; this involved people who woul...
Mary Creagh | 514 c215 (Link to this contribution) I will make my point first. I bet that there is not a single Member sitting on those green Governmen...
Andrew George | 514 c215 (Link to this contribution) I agree with many of the points that the hon. Lady has made on child care issues, but I wish to put ...
Mary Creagh | 514 c216 (Link to this contribution) Interestingly, when the Red Book refers to the effects on child poverty it talks about the next coup...
Charlie Elphicke | 514 c216 (Link to this contribution) I just point out to the hon. Lady that child poverty had risen by 300,000 since 2004, whereas under ...
Mary Creagh | 514 c215 (Link to this contribution) That is one of the figures put about by the Conservatives during the election as a way of frightenin...
Andrea Leadsom | 514 c215 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady explain whether those children also knew that they had about £23,000 of debt each...
George Freeman | 514 c216 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady mentioned the child trust fund, and I think that all hon. Members would agree that est...
Speaker | 514 c215 (Link to this contribution) The relevance is the subject of VAT, which is addressed in the Bill, but I would reiterate the guida...
Alun Cairns | 514 c214 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I seek your guidance on what cots have to do with the Financ...
Mary Creagh | 514 c214 (Link to this contribution) I am not saying people should buy everything new, but I am certainly not telling families in my cons...
Andrea Leadsom | 514 c213-4 (Link to this contribution) That is the sisterhood. I want to make a point about pushchairs, prams, car seats and cots. To my c...
Chris Leslie | 514 c214 (Link to this contribution) When listening to interventions from the Government Benches, it comes as a shocking revelation to he...
Mary Creagh | 514 c215 (Link to this contribution) We have had a debate on the higher-rated goods, which will be permanently more expensive following t...
Andrew George | 514 c215 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady give way on VAT?
Speaker | 514 c213 (Link to this contribution) Funnily enough, I was waiting for that point of order to be made earlier. The Order Paper is always ...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 514 c213 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The hon. Lady said that she was not taking any interventions...
Speaker | 514 c213 (Link to this contribution) It is very much up to hon. Members whether to take any interventions or a number of interventions, b...
Mary Creagh | 514 c213 (Link to this contribution) I know what the hon. Gentleman wants to ask, and I am happy to answer his question without his havin...
Mary Creagh | 514 c213 (Link to this contribution) I am dealing with the hon. Gentleman's point. Perhaps he would acknowledge that. Families on low inc...
Mary Creagh | 514 c213 (Link to this contribution) I have already said that I am not going to give way to Opposition Members. It is true that child tax...
Mary Creagh | 514 c213 (Link to this contribution) I know that there is to be an increase of £150. I will come to that if the hon. Gentleman will show ...
Mary Creagh | 514 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) I want to look at three areas of this Finance Bill. The first is the economic impact of the fiscal c...
Mary Creagh | 514 c212 (Link to this contribution) No. I am going to take my time. As I have said, I am not going to take interventions. Nappies, pram...
Matt Hancock | 514 c212 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Lady give way to an intervention on the increase in tax credit?
Mary Creagh | 514 c212 (Link to this contribution) I will not, because we have only one hour left, and eight Members wish to speak. The Front-Bench spo...
Matt Hancock | 514 c210-1 (Link to this contribution) Let me make some progress; I have only a couple of minutes left. The final argument is about produc...
Matt Hancock | 514 c211 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is probably right.
Matt Hancock | 514 c211 (Link to this contribution) I am going to conclude. So this is my argument: fiscal responsibility is not contradictory to growt...
Matt Hancock | 514 c209-10 (Link to this contribution) What Policy Exchange has done is review the economic literature, which is what I am looking at. Pero...
Owen Smith | 514 c210 (Link to this contribution) On that specific point of corporations looking to the future and thinking about how to plan their bu...
Speaker | 514 c210 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock) resumes his speech, let me say that...
Matt Hancock | 514 c210 (Link to this contribution) The reductions in corporation tax that are outlined in this Bill have been welcomed by the CBI, the ...
Matt Hancock | 514 c209 (Link to this contribution) I am always delighted to talk about when the previous Labour Government lost office, so I thank my h...
Kwasi Kwarteng | 514 c209 (Link to this contribution) Those of us who have looked at bond yields will have noticed that the tightening—as it called—of Bri...
Matt Hancock | 514 c209 (Link to this contribution) Of course, the bond market could see a Conservative—or coalition—Government coming, and that is exac...
Liam Byrne | 514 c209 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Gentleman's argument with great interest. He will have worked at the Bank of...
Matt Hancock | 514 c209 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is getting a reputation for making extremely good interventions, and that was one of ...
Lord Wharton of Yarm | 514 c209 (Link to this contribution) I would like to echo my hon. Friend's comments about interest rates, but also add that low interest ...
Liam Byrne | 514 c208 (Link to this contribution) I understand the debating technique that the hon. Gentleman is adopting—trying to set up a straw man...
Matt Hancock | 514 c208-9 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately, those from whom the previous Government had borrowed so much did not see a credible p...
Speaker | 514 c208 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind Members that we have to stick to the Bill. We are being dragged off in different dir...
Matt Hancock | 514 c208 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to pay tribute to the then Chancellor, who expressed his gratitude...
Matt Hancock | 514 c207 (Link to this contribution) It is an honour to follow the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne). Having spoken...
Liam Byrne | 514 c206-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is right to underline the virtues of the OBR. I, too, welcome it, which is why it is s...
Thomas Docherty | 514 c208 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has criticised the previous Government time and time again. However, does he thin...
Sajid Javid | 514 c206 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman was comparing the growth forecast of the previous Government to that of the...
Liam Byrne | 514 c205-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely good point. The evidence on that is mixed. The CBI industrial ...
Andrea Leadsom | 514 c206 (Link to this contribution) Only this morning in the Treasury Committee we were talking with Sir Alan Budd and some of the membe...
Liam Byrne | 514 c206 (Link to this contribution) I hope that at some point in his future illustrious career in this House the hon. Gentleman has the ...
Liam Byrne | 514 c205 (Link to this contribution) No. I am saying that the country's investors now have so little confidence in the economic plan that...
Sammy Wilson | 514 c205 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman mentioned two aspects of aggregate demand—consumer spending and Government ...
Liam Byrne | 514 c203-4 (Link to this contribution) I seem to remember that the Government's response to the banking system was opposed by the Conservat...
Owen Smith | 514 c204 (Link to this contribution) On precisely that point about the different levels of private sector job creation and public sector ...
Liam Byrne | 514 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising the question of mandates. If one thing is clear in t...
John Redwood | 514 c203 (Link to this contribution) In August and September 2007, when I and some others were urging the Government to make more cash an...
Liam Byrne | 514 c205 (Link to this contribution) Of course I will give way to the hon. Lady. She has been chuntering away so assiduously from a seden...
Justine Greening | 514 c205 (Link to this contribution) Is the right hon. Gentleman saying that he thinks the savings ratio is too high and that we should e...
Liam Byrne | 514 c204 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend highlights the second risk that I wish to move on to. With risks so great, and talked...
Justine Greening | 514 c205 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Alun Cairns | 514 c202 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman talked about an illusion, and we can trade statistics back and forth, but a...
Liam Byrne | 514 c202 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Lady could explain why the Conservatives supported our spending plans until 2008. A...
Liam Byrne | 514 c201 (Link to this contribution) Let us come to that point directly. If we want to understand the difference between our parties, we ...
Stewart Hosie | 514 c201 (Link to this contribution) Much as I like the shadow Chief Secretary and much as he is doing a sterling job in attacking this n...
Liam Byrne | 514 c201 (Link to this contribution) It would be churlish of the hon. Gentleman not to acknowledge the role that the Labour Government pl...
Stewart Hosie | 514 c201 (Link to this contribution) I supported fiscal stimulus; I still support fiscal stimulus when it is necessary. The question is n...
Liam Byrne | 514 c201 (Link to this contribution) I do not know what figures the hon. Gentleman is looking at, but in the March Budget the fiscal stim...
Speaker | 514 c202 (Link to this contribution) Order. I press hon. Members to make shorter interventions. The shadow Chief Secretary is being gener...
Liam Byrne | 514 c202 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I want to pursue the argument for a moment longer. The implication of...
Sajid Javid | 514 c200-1 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving me the opportunity to intervene again. The 6.7% decline ...
Justine Greening | 514 c238 (Link to this contribution) That is what the voters expect, and what they—[Hon. Members: ““Give way!””] Oh, I will give way.
Clive Efford | 514 c238 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the hon. Lady, but will she accept this one point? Throughout the debate her p...
Justine Greening | 514 c238-9 (Link to this contribution) What is too big is the deficit. That is what we need to sort out. As I have said, the hon. Gentleman...
Chris Williamson | 514 c237 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister aware, though, that the Financial Times published research last month showing that 1...
Justine Greening | 514 c237 (Link to this contribution) That is typical of the contributions that we have had from Opposition Members all the way through ou...
Justine Greening | 514 c237-8 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. There was a time when the Labour party had something relevant to say on the economy;...
Kelvin Hopkins | 514 c235 (Link to this contribution) Exactly the same predictions were made about unemployment falling because of the 1979 Budget—in fact...
Angela Eagle | 514 c235-6 (Link to this contribution) People should learn from their economic history; I only wish that this Government would. The OBR's ...
Justine Greening | 514 c236 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. We have just heard from the shadow Minister that the Opposition are still in denial...
Toby Perkins | 514 c232 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady mentioned the prescience of the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable) and has...
Angela Eagle | 514 c233-5 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way because the hon. Gentleman has not been here for the entire debate; if he had be...
Margot James | 514 c232 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the hon. Gentleman intervened because I cannot understand why that point keeps being ...
Angela Eagle | 514 c232-3 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting debate on the Third Reading of the Finance Bill, although it has gone ove...
Chris Heaton-Harris | 514 c226-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall canter through my comments because I know that time is very short. I always try to find some...
Toby Perkins | 514 c228-30 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) was true to his word. His speech was fairly brief...
Charlie Elphicke | 514 c230 (Link to this contribution) I shall keep my remarks brief and discuss clause 1 in relation to corporation tax. There are many p...
Margot James | 514 c230-1 (Link to this contribution) I never cease to be surprised by some of the speeches from the Labour Benches. Some could have been ...
Margot James | 514 c231-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving me the benefit of some of the history of the House before I was a ...
Tom Blenkinsop | 514 c224 (Link to this contribution) I should like to echo my hon. Friend's words, especially given that the Government will reduce annua...
Chuka Umunna | 514 c224-6 (Link to this contribution) Of course, I agree with my hon. Friend. In addition, behind closed doors, some people in the Treasur...
Speaker | 514 c226 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman's speech is going wider than the Finance Bill itself, so will he please di...
Chuka Umunna | 514 c226 (Link to this contribution) I was actually reaching the end of my speech, Mr Deputy Speaker. The key point that I am trying to m...
Andrew George | 514 c221 (Link to this contribution) I am just bringing my remarks to a close and I know that a lot of people wish to engage in the Backb...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 514 c222 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Chuka Umunna | 514 c221-2 (Link to this contribution) The measures in the Bill and the emergency Budget in general have been called many things. The Chanc...
Gavin Williamson | 514 c223 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not feel that the last Labour Government had any responsibility for the econ...
Chuka Umunna | 514 c223 (Link to this contribution) Okay; three. The charity said:"““A 20% VAT rate means that the poorest parents will see their VAT b...
Chuka Umunna | 514 c223-4 (Link to this contribution) I will turn to those exact points in the rest of my speech if the hon. Gentleman will wait. Let me ...
Chuka Umunna | 514 c222 (Link to this contribution) I wish to make a bit of progress, but I might give way in a bit. I wish to acknowledge that the Con...
Chuka Umunna | 514 c222-3 (Link to this contribution) No I will not; I will make some progress first, and I will give way in a bit. What we are witnessin...
Liam Byrne | 514 c194 (Link to this contribution) Is not the answer very straightforward? Is not the answer that the Budget depresses growth so much t...
Mary Creagh | 514 c215 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that clarification. I now want to discuss the child trust fund, whic...
Mary Creagh | 514 c214 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to finish my point. There is an important point to make about cots. No matter where peopl...
Mary Creagh | 514 c214 (Link to this contribution) I think it does, and I also think it is indicative of the idea that the poor are no better than they...
Matt Hancock | 514 c213 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am new to the House. Could you possibly advise me whether ...
Mary Creagh | 514 c213 (Link to this contribution) In that case, Mr Deputy Speaker, I am happy to take all interventions, even though I have spent thre...
Elizabeth Truss | 514 c202 (Link to this contribution) What we are criticising is how the debt was built up prior to the economy going into freefall. Publi...
Toby Perkins | 514 c201-2 (Link to this contribution) I should like to bring my right hon. Friend back to what he was talking about—unemployment, housing,...
Justine Greening | 514 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. The OBR said that the deficit was £12 billion larger than had previously been sugge...
Stephen Williams | 514 c231 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may be interested to learn about what happened when we sat on the Opposition Benches ...
Liam Byrne | 514 c199-200 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for the opportunity to say a few things in conclusion to our debate about the pan...
David Gauke | 514 c193 (Link to this contribution) Not for the first time in this debate, I will, with great pleasure, give way to my hon. Friend.
Andrew George | 514 c220 (Link to this contribution) In the context of the extremely difficult circumstances in the economy, the VAT rise will certainly ...

Subjects

Annuities
Economic situation
Economic growth
Forecasts
Pensions
Public sector
Public expenditure
Public sector debt
Tax allowances
Taxation
VAT
Unemployment
Uprating
Cuts
Office for Budget Responsibility

Legislation

Finance Bill 2010-12 to 2012-13

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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