UK Parliament / Open data

Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 28 January 2009, in the House of Lords.
Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage fourth day. Clauses 11 to 15 agreed to. Clause 16 under consideration. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

707 c75-132GC 

Session

2008-09

Department

Department for Communities and Local Government

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Related items

Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill (HL). Explanatory Notes HL Bill 2-EN also published.
Thursday, 4 December 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Andrews | 707 c111-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, for trying to clarify these clauses. I am afraid...
Lord Greaves | 707 c109-11GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 109, 110, 112 to 114, 118 and 124. The Conservatives have Amendment...

Show all contributions (94)
Lord Greaves | 707 c105GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 95. Amendment 95 withdrawn. Amendments 96 and 97 not moved. Ame...
Lord Greaves | 707 c97-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thought that I was going to seriously fall out with the Minister just then, but her last sentence ...
Lord Greaves | 707 c90GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 93 93: Clause 12, page 7, line 31, leave out ““at least the specified number of””
Baroness Andrews | 707 c124-5GC (Link to this contribution) No, because we did not actually want to write that detail into the Bill, for the many good reasons t...
Baroness Andrews | 707 c123-4GC (Link to this contribution) I shall first address the issue of prescription. Clause 14(6) states that the, "““petition scheme mu...
Baroness Hamwee | 707 c126-7GC (Link to this contribution) The clause raises a contentious point and we on these Benches strongly oppose it. It provides that a...
Lord Greaves | 707 c117-9GC (Link to this contribution) That was one of the weakest replies I have heard for a long time. I do not blame the Minister, for w...
Lord Greaves | 707 c119GC (Link to this contribution) I shall also speak to Amendment 120. This is fairly straightforward and we can deal with it a bit qu...
Baroness Andrews | 707 c128-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am very well aware from the debate that this is something that noble Lords opposite want us to thi...
Lord Greaves | 707 c130GC (Link to this contribution) It states that, "““the petition requests that an officer of the authority (whether identified by nam...
Baroness Andrews | 707 c130GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, but that still does not mean that he is not there strictly because of the job he does and the r...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c116GC (Link to this contribution) District councils in two-tier areas do not co-ordinate local area agreements.
Lord Hanningfield | 707 c111GC (Link to this contribution) We have one amendment in this group—Amendment 106—and it is very simple. I think that we have alread...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c116GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, has almost answered some of his questions by analysing this clause. Cl...
Lord Greaves | 707 c114-6GC (Link to this contribution) I shall also speak to Amendment 122, which is grouped with this one. This group that refers to relev...
Lord Greaves | 707 c109GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 13: Requirement to acknowledge valid petitions Amendment 104 104: Clause 13, page 8, line 1...
Baroness Andrews | 707 c107-8GC (Link to this contribution) As this is the first time that the noble Lord, Lord Tope, has spoken, it is my very pleasant duty to...
Baroness Maddock | 707 c108GC (Link to this contribution) It is because I do not understand this.
Lord Greaves | 707 c104-5GC (Link to this contribution) A number of people in this Committee from across the parties, including one or two from the Labour B...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c104GC (Link to this contribution) I take that point on board. There is a sense of helping people and guiding them in a direction that ...
Baroness Hamwee | 707 c103GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether I could pick up on phrase that the noble Lord has just used and suggest that the Go...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c102-3GC (Link to this contribution) I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, who is standing in for her two noble friends. The amendme...
Lord Paul | 707 c100GC (Link to this contribution) I remind Members of the Committee that mobile phones should be switched off so that they do not inte...
Lord Hanningfield | 707 c93GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Greaves. I thank him for the forensic analysis he has done of this pa...
Lord Graham of Edmonton | 707 c127GC (Link to this contribution) I tried, inadvertently and wrongly, to raise the issue that I now want to raise briefly. It is on th...
Lord Greaves | 707 c125GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister accused me of wanting to put more detail in the Bill. I have just counted up and my pro...
Lord Greaves | 707 c120GC (Link to this contribution) I am not clear why the Government think that whether a petition is legal or calls for anything unlaw...
Lord Greaves | 707 c120-1GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 123 123: Clause 14, page 9, line 7, leave out from ““that”” to end of line 44 and insert ...
Lord Greaves | 707 c119GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 119 119: Clause 14, page 8, line 26, after ““vexatious”” insert ““or””
Lord Greaves | 707 c85-6GC (Link to this contribution) I shall also speak to Amendment 111. We are still on the question of valid petitions and the hoops t...
Lord Hanningfield | 707 c81GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Clause 18 stand part, but I support what the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, said on the ...
Lord Greaves | 707 c80GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 91A 91A: Clause 12, page 7, line 28, after ““addressed”” insert ““or presented””
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c82-3GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord that the word is somewhat ambiguous. My speaking notes attempted to make...
Lord Greaves | 707 c82GC (Link to this contribution) This is a new doctrine. In the eight years I have been a Member of the House I have never heard that...
Baroness Andrews | 707 c78-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Brooke. I certainly did not mind his intervention the other day, and hi...
Lord Greaves | 707 c75GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 11: Petition schemes Amendment 89 89: Clause 11, page 7, line 24, at end insert— ““( ) Noth...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 707 c77-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, for having given me the opportunity of speaking to Am...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c132GC (Link to this contribution) I think this may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Tuesday at 3.30 pm.
Baroness Andrews | 707 c129GC (Link to this contribution) If I had been allowed to continue my argument I think the noble Lord would have been satisfied on th...
Lord Greaves | 707 c130GC (Link to this contribution) But what the noble Baroness is saying is not true.
Baroness Andrews | 707 c130GC (Link to this contribution) It is not true what I am saying? I am telling the noble Lord what is in the Bill.
Baroness Hamwee | 707 c130-2GC (Link to this contribution) I shall add one further thing because I think it is worth putting on the record. It is the danger of...
Lord Greaves | 707 c113-4GC (Link to this contribution) I hear what the Minister says, and I thank her for that reply. I showed all this lot to two local go...
Lord Greaves | 707 c116GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister read out that sentence again so that I can understand it? I am not sure it was rig...
Baroness Maddock | 707 c108GC (Link to this contribution) The main point of my question is whether there is anything hidden legally in here. I thought it was ...
Lord Greaves | 707 c100-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, for moving the amendment. I should like to sp...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 707 c93-4GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief. It is now 40 years since I was a councillor in the London Borough of Camden, and I...
Baroness Andrews | 707 c94-7GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, completely agree. The example given by the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, proves why we need a def...
Lord Greaves | 707 c89-90GC (Link to this contribution) That is right. I thought that we were discussing this a little prematurely, so I will say no more ab...
Lord Greaves | 707 c124GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister honestly think that if an item about youth facilities goes on the agenda as a peti...
Lord Hanningfield | 707 c128GC (Link to this contribution) I support the proposal from the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee. Officers are appointed to serve the who...
Baroness Maddock | 707 c127-8GC (Link to this contribution) I strongly support my noble friend in this matter. I have been a councillor for many years. There ha...
Lord Greaves | 707 c121-3GC (Link to this contribution) This is what I call the ““more sensible scheme—part 2””. The amendment seeks to remove everything fr...
Lord Hanningfield | 707 c123GC (Link to this contribution) I support what the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, said. When I read the Bill, I thought that the Governme...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c119-20GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that I can clearly outline why the words that we have used have been used. Clause 14 requires...
Lord Borrie | 707 c84GC (Link to this contribution) I have a further point about Amendment 91A. The Minister was perfectly correct in saying that, if th...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c84GC (Link to this contribution) The issues raised create some ambiguity and it would be helpful to have the position clarified; ther...
Lord Greaves | 707 c85GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 92 92: Clause 12, page 7, line 30, at end insert ““or to make representations to any othe...
Baroness Andrews | 707 c87-9GC (Link to this contribution) This is a useful debate because the way in which the principal authority relates to its partners, th...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c82GC (Link to this contribution) Noble Lords have raised some pragmatic and sensible issues on which I hope I can reassure them. Cert...
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c83-4GC (Link to this contribution) We have highlighted the issues that we think are particularly relevant as a guide, almost. However, ...
Baroness Hamwee | 707 c83GC (Link to this contribution) The Government are arguing that local authorities should have flexibility and then say that having a...
Lord Greaves | 707 c79-80GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 127 relates to Clause 18, and we will come to that in a later group. There are very seriou...
Baroness Harris of Richmond | 707 c75GC (Link to this contribution) If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, this Committee will adjourn as soon as t...
Lord Greaves | 707 c129GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just hit the nail on the head: overview and scrutiny committees do not overview and...
Lord Greaves | 707 c114GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 117 117: Clause 14, page 8, line 25, leave out paragraph (a)
Baroness Andrews | 707 c108GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that putting that on the record will reassure the people of Berwick. Clause 12 agreed.
Lord Tope | 707 c106-7GC (Link to this contribution) We have already spent goodness knows how many hours on this chapter, yet I see to my horror that we ...
Baroness Maddock | 707 c105-6GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with my noble friend Lord Greaves that the Bill is very prescriptive and it means that we ar...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 707 c107GC (Link to this contribution) We, too, oppose Clause 12 standing part of the Bill. I simply add a request for the Government to ta...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 707 c105GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee for my phone. I had it on ““silent””, but it is clear that I had a pers...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 707 c99-100GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 102 and 107 in the names of my noble friends Lady Warsi and Lord Ha...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 707 c99GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 95 95: Clause 12, page 7, line 33, leave out paragraph (d)
Lord Greaves | 707 c90-3GC (Link to this contribution) We are still on the question of valid petitions. This group of amendments questions a number of the ...
Lord Greaves | 707 c125-6GC (Link to this contribution) I have to say that I disagree. When subsection (6) in particular reaches the light of day, it will r...
Baroness Andrews | 707 c125GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to go on, but giving effect, as I said to the noble Lord, encompasses the processes that ...
Lord Greaves | 707 c116GC (Link to this contribution) The word ““co-ordinate”” is okay. I did not hear it originally.
Lord Patel of Bradford | 707 c117GC (Link to this contribution) They have limited ability to influence wider issues. There are some arguments around the edges of wh...
Lord Greaves | 707 c84-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for that comment. I cannot believe that the Hansard of this Grand Committee will ...
Lord Hanningfield | 707 c86-7GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendments. The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, has highlighted the problems in two-tier aut...
Baroness Hamwee | 707 c89GC (Link to this contribution) Notwithstanding the Minister’s comment about flexibility, I should like it clearly understood that l...
Lord Greaves | 707 c89GC (Link to this contribution) I am slightly confused because I thought we had an amendment relating to the issue of a ““relevant m...
Lord Greaves | 707 c80-1GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 126 and 128 and the Question whether Clause 18 should stand part. T...
Baroness Hamwee | 707 c82GC (Link to this contribution) On Clause 18 stand part, when I wrote to the Minister on 15 January—I was surprised but pleased to r...
Lord Hanningfield | 707 c78GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s comments. I apologise for the absence of my noble friend Lady Warsi this...
Lord Greaves | 707 c75-7GC (Link to this contribution) Just to give people a change, we can talk about petitions. The problem with irony is that it does no...

Subjects

Children
Children in care
Accountability
Councillors
County councils
ICT
Internet
District councils
Local government
Public consultation
Young people
Local strategic partnerships
Local area agreements

Legislation

Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill (HL) 2008-09

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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