Planning Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Thursday, 16 October 2008, in the House of Lords.

Planning Bill. Lords Committee stage fourth day. Clauses 35 to 110 agreed to, with clauses 43, 55, 95, 108 agreed to as amended. Schedules 2 and 3 agreed to as amended.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

704 c825-38,864-933

Session

2007-08

Proceeding contributions

Lord Greaves | 704 c900 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that the applicant can give a longer time. Once the application is in, is it not t...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c900 (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, the applicant has to satisfy the IPC that he has consulted properly. The IPC can...

Show all contributions (136)

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c900 (Link to this contribution) I am completely fascinated, not to say hypnotised, that the Minister agrees with our Amendment No. 2...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c900 (Link to this contribution) I shall think about it, as it is clearly an issue of major importance.

Baroness Andrews | 704 c897-9 (Link to this contribution) I think that I understand that but I hope that I may be forgiven if I have to read Hansard tomorrow ...

Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c900 (Link to this contribution) I know that the process is long, but he will not know the details of the application until he gets t...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c900 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord makes a strong point. I go back to my original argument that this is the minimum time...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c900-1 (Link to this contribution) I beg the Minister’s pardon. I was perhaps trying to read too much into her remarks. I am fascinated...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c901 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 224: 224: Clause 55, page 32, line 33, after ““the”” insert ““applicant, after...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c901 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 227 and 228: 227: Clause 55, page 33, line 7, at end insert— ““This is subje...

Lord Cobbold | 704 c906 (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 232: 232: Clause 59, page 35, line 3, afte...

Lord Greaves | 704 c905-6 (Link to this contribution) Yet again the noble Lord, Lord Woolmer, has made a good point about national parks, and given anothe...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c903-4 (Link to this contribution) I have said many times that we are very keen to ensure that the local authorities have an enhanced r...

Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 704 c903 (Link to this contribution) On an associated matter, what is the position of national parks under the clause? They are certainly...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c904 (Link to this contribution) I see my noble friend’s point and my understanding is that this applies to local authorities. Perhap...

Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 704 c904 (Link to this contribution) While I am grateful to my noble friend for responding to my point, the definition of a local authori...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c902 (Link to this contribution) Yes.

Lord Greaves | 704 c901-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 229: 229: Clause 58, page 34, line 25, after ““section 99(5),”” insert— ““( ) ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 704 c903 (Link to this contribution) I am tempted to say that I am all at sea, but only as a way of bringing the topic back to the draft ...

Lord Greaves | 704 c902-3 (Link to this contribution) Thank you. The amendment adds to the provision: "““The Commission must give notice in writing to ea...

Baroness Hayman | 704 c906 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord wish to move the amendment? It has been spoken to, but this is the point where y...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c910-1 (Link to this contribution) I have a number of amendments in this group and I am afraid that I may speak at a little more length...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c909 (Link to this contribution) They are heroic, but they are beginning to demonstrate some of the flaws of the planning system itse...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c908-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 269: 269: Clause 85, page 45, line 2, at end insert— ““( ) Subject to subsecti...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 704 c907 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for raising the point, but I understood that it was not proper procedure to use such a d...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c907 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for enabling me to thank her and the Official Opposition Front B...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c906-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 241: 241: Clause 60, page 35, line 32, at end insert— ““( ) the single Commiss...

Lord Cobbold | 704 c906 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to move it. [Amendment No. 232 not moved.] [Amendments Nos. 233 to 237 not moved.] ...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c912-6 (Link to this contribution) This is indeed an important series of amendments in an important part of the Bill. We all agree that...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c917 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee for not having been here for the first part of the debate on this group...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c918 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that intervention, but much of that will have taken place at...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 704 c917-8 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to detain the Committee when it probably wants to shut up shop, but I have to pick up the...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c918 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has already responded, but I think there will be an opportunity at the next stage to di...

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 704 c918 (Link to this contribution) I shall not respond further other than to say that I hope that my noble friend will have something t...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c919 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not think we will cross-examine, but we will test whether that term should remain in the Bi...

Lord Greaves | 704 c919 (Link to this contribution) Cross-examine.

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c919-20 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has dealt with her usual conscientiousness with a difficult area of the Bill. She...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c919 (Link to this contribution) I shall reply very briefly to the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin. I have some sympathy with the way the arg...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c921 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 294: 294: Clause 100, page 51, line 32, leave out from ““consent”” to end of l...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c921-2 (Link to this contribution) Similarly, my Amendments Nos. 295 to 297 relate to matters that have already been discussed. I shall...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c920-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 289: 289: Clause 95, page 49, line 21, after ““construction”” insert ““(other ...

Lord Greaves | 704 c924 (Link to this contribution) I listened to what the Minister said a few hours ago on a similar subject that I had raised and I th...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c923-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the way in which noble Lords have introduced these very specific amendments. Noble...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 704 c922-3 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 302 takes a little further some arguments that I expressed in earlier debates in Commi...

Lord Judd | 704 c922 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 301A and 306A. I do not in any way seek to challenge the importance...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c925-6 (Link to this contribution) Nothing divides us on this—the noble Lord is absolutely right. That is one of the reasons for having...

Lord Greaves | 704 c925 (Link to this contribution) I do not want it thought that I am trying to cross-examine the Minister. We all understand that the ...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c924-5 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly going to write to the noble Lord about it. But, as he knows, the national policy stat...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c927 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 327: 327: Clause 105, page 54, line 15, leave out from ““that”” to first ““the...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c926-7 (Link to this contribution) I am not at all sure, given our behaviour on this Bill, that we are in a position to advise anybody ...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c928-9 (Link to this contribution) This is a good point at which to finish our deliberations today. I am grateful for the support of th...

Earl Cathcart | 704 c927-8 (Link to this contribution) We oppose the clause standing part of the Bill, but only, I hasten to add, in a probing way. The cla...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c932 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to intervene but we are raking over precisely the ground that we discussed on Tuesday, as...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c932 (Link to this contribution) As regards Amendments Nos. 331 and 332, I was not suggesting that the Secretary of State should not ...

Earl Cathcart | 704 c929 (Link to this contribution) Yes.

Baroness Andrews | 704 c929-31 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I beg his pardon; I shall reframe my answer. If the NPS has to be reviewed, clearly i...

Earl of Caithness | 704 c931 (Link to this contribution) I listened with care to the noble Baroness’s comments on this amendment as the noble Baroness, Lady ...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c931 (Link to this contribution) We had a brief exchange on this matter on Tuesday. The point the noble Earl makes needs to be set in...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c933 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 336: 336: Schedule 3, page 158, line 36, after ““construction”” insert ““(othe...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c932 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 335: 335: Clause 108, page 55, line 18, after ““applies”” insert ““in relation...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c932 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 333: 333: After Clause 107, insert the following new Clause— ““Intervention: o...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c932 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness asked whether I would withdraw my amendment, but my noble friend is mischief maki...

Lord Greaves | 704 c932 (Link to this contribution) Let’s have a vote.

Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c933 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

Baroness Andrews | 704 c825 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 169: 169: Schedule 2, page 149, line 7, leave out ““and has been granted, for ...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c825 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Mov...

Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 704 c868 (Link to this contribution) I apologise that I have not been able to be present since the lunch break. I gather that we will not...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c870-1 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minster goes on to another amendment, applicants will set great store by the tone that th...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c868-70 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very long debate, necessarily so as there is a huge range of amendments in the group...

Lord Greaves | 704 c871 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for my noble friend’s intervention. Does the Minister not understand that th...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c871-5 (Link to this contribution) Not necessarily. We are talking about pre-application consultation. All I can say to the noble Lord ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 704 c875 (Link to this contribution) This is purely a matter of clarification. I want to ask about marine representation in the Bill. Am ...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c875 (Link to this contribution) I agree with everything that the noble Lord has said. First, there has to be a proper read-across be...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c876 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is absolutely right. In some cases, the NPS is a material consideration; the planning...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c876 (Link to this contribution) No.

Lord Judd | 704 c877 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for what she said about national parks; it was very encouraging. I have no d...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c876-7 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, except on one thing. It is not bedtime rea...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c876 (Link to this contribution) I think that there is a distinction to be made; it is that distinction that allows for the flexibili...

Lord Greaves | 704 c876 (Link to this contribution) Okay; we will look forward to that. The other issue that I wish to raise is the role of a local auth...

Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c879-80 (Link to this contribution) These amendments alter the way in which the Secretary of State may bring forward model provisions re...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c880 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that explanation. I take it that the term ““prescribed”” in Clause 36(3)(d) refers...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c877-8 (Link to this contribution) It will be difficult to give a sufficient summary of what has been said and the Committee will be re...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c878-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 179: 179: Clause 37, page 23, line 23, leave out from ““may”” to ““to”” in lin...

Lord Berkeley | 704 c825-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 171A: 171A: Schedule 2, page 156, line 34, at end insert— ““Greater London Aut...

Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 704 c827-8 (Link to this contribution) Amendments Nos. 409A to 409C stand in my name. Like the amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Berk...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c831 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 172: 172: Schedule 2, page 156, line 39, at end insert— ““Crossrail Act 2008 (...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c831-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 176: 176: Clause 36, page 23, line 6, at end insert ““, and ( ) be accompanied...

Lord Bradshaw | 704 c828 (Link to this contribution) At Question Time earlier, the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, drew attention to the fact that guidance give...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c828-30 (Link to this contribution) These amendments seek reassurance in different respects. I hope I can reassure noble Lords that what...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c830 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, replies, may I say that I am extremely grateful for the amount...

Lord Greaves | 704 c830-1 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley replies, I should like to congratulate the Minister and the Gov...

Lord Judd | 704 c835 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will understand why I am intervening. I emphasise again my relationship with the Frie...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c835 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Cameron. I like to feel that if we got replies from Ministers ...

Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c833-5 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to various amendments in this group. I, too, support the noble Lord, Lord Judd, in h...

Lord Judd | 704 c832-3 (Link to this contribution) I would like to speak to my Amendment No. 191, which is in this group. It relates to our discussions...

Baroness Thornton | 704 c838 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House be resumed. Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to. Ho...

Lord Greaves | 704 c864-8 (Link to this contribution) We resume debate on this long and varied group of amendments on applications for development consent...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 704 c837-8 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment proposed by my noble friend. I shall speak to Amendment No. 188. I am gratef...

Lord Greenway | 704 c838 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Taylor. Regarding the statutory consultees in...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c836-7 (Link to this contribution) I was perhaps unwise to embark on this, and I shall say no more about it. The noble Lord has clearly...

Lord Chorley | 704 c837 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Judd. I do not want to take more than a few...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c897 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister moves on, the point is the one that the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, ...

Earl Cathcart | 704 c894 (Link to this contribution) I thank those who supported these amendments. I was interested to hear the Minister say that he woul...

Earl Cathcart | 704 c894-5 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendment No. 211 not move...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c895 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 212: 212: Clause 53, page 31, line 7, leave out ““that purports to be an appli...

Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c894 (Link to this contribution) Before the amendment is withdrawn, will the Minister reply, or undertake to reply, to my request abo...

Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c894 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly write to the noble Lord on that.

Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c896 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to two amendments in this group. On Amendment No. 216, I am probably fighting a manage...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c896-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords for addressing their amendments succinctly. Some of this reiterates our...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c895 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 221 is in my name. Again, it is directed to the disabled and the need to have the appl...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c895-6 (Link to this contribution) We have a few amendments in this group. Amendments Nos. 215 and 218—Amendment No. 217 is consequenti...

Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c888-9 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may begin by setting out what Clause 49 seeks to achieve. The giving of advice will play a...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c887-8 (Link to this contribution) It occurred to me, when reading Amendment No. 204, that there is an analogy. In the normal world of ...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c887 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 204: 204: Clause 49, page 27, line 29, leave out ““Commission may give advice”...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c886 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is right, I cannot answer the question. As a good European, the suggestion sounds int...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c886-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 194 and 195: 194: Clause 43, page 25, line 33, at end insert— ““This is subj...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c885 (Link to this contribution) I can confirm that that is the case.

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c886 (Link to this contribution) I offer my warmest congratulations to my noble friend Lord Reay on the astonishing achievement of ge...

Lord Reay | 704 c884-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to my amendment, which would leave out Clause 151. I put this amendment down some time...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c885 (Link to this contribution) The need for Amendment No. 394B disappears—or, at least, my argument for it disappears—if the clause...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c880-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 192: 192: Clause 43, page 25, line 16, after ““the”” insert ““applicant, after...

Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c893-4 (Link to this contribution) I am told that I had better not be brave. The only type of information that may be obtained using th...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c893 (Link to this contribution) You’d better not.

Earl Cathcart | 704 c891-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 210: 210: Clause 50, page 28, line 18, at end insert— ““( ) The applicant shal...

Lord Cameron of Dillington | 704 c892-3 (Link to this contribution) I put my name to Amendment No. 211. I shall not back it up with such complicated urban examples as t...

Earl of Caithness | 704 c893 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend on Amendment No. 211. It is a good opportunity for the Minister to tear up...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c889 (Link to this contribution) I thought that Amendment No. 204 was quite specific and required the Secretary of State to give advi...

Lord Patel of Bradford | 704 c889-90 (Link to this contribution) I had understood that the role would be performed by a government body before it reached the Secreta...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c890 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord responds, if he wishes to pursue this matter at a later stage—I assume that he...

Lord Dixon-Smith | 704 c890-1 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee if there is some confusion. The intention behind the amendment was that...

Baroness Andrews | 704 c871 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree with the noble Baroness more, which is why the guidance to be issued by the IPC an...

Lord Berkeley | 704 c831 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for her response. I take great comfort for her stateme...

Lord Greaves | 704 c876 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that and I am sure that it will form part of what we get, because the noble Barone...

Baroness Hamwee | 704 c907-8 (Link to this contribution) I consider myself reprimanded. I have referred to it before and on the first occasion I was thanked ...

Lord Greaves | 704 c876 (Link to this contribution) I have two quick points. I thank the Minister for yet again providing us with a large amount of bedt...

Lord Jenkin of Roding | 704 c826-7 (Link to this contribution) Amendments Nos. 408 and 409 in this group are in my name. They would apply to the part of the Bill t...