Pensions Bill. Lords Committee stage eighth day. Clauses 107 to 122 agreed to, with clauses 115 to 117, 120 and 121 agreed to as amended. Schedule 8 agreed to. Schedule 9 agreed to as amended. Bill reported with amendments.
Pensions Bill
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Thursday, 17 July 2008,
in the House of Lords.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
703 c1354-404Session
2007-08Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Pensions Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes HL Bill 50-EN also published.
Wednesday, 23 April 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Wednesday, 23 April 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1366-7 (Link to this contribution)
With these amendments, the noble Lord raises the relationship between transparent decision-making an...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 703 c1365 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my noble friend. I shall take advice on whether I need to table an amendment or whe...
Show all contributions (93)
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1365 (Link to this contribution)
I always welcome amendments from my noble friend. Irrespective of whether they are forthcoming, I sh...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1368 (Link to this contribution)
We will miss the noble Lord but wish him well in his endeavours later today.
Lord Lucas | 703 c1368 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for what the Minister has said. He gave a full answer to my first amendment; I must go...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1368 (Link to this contribution)
I would be more than happy to facilitate the noble Lord’s involvement in that as well. Obviously it ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1367-8 (Link to this contribution)
The danger is that regulators become like Ministers in their need to justify themselves. Ministers d...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1364 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my noble friend Lady Hollis for raising this important issue, which is clearly supported acr...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 703 c1364-5 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Committee. It is always a pleasure—and not just for political reasons—to get such warm s...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1369 (Link to this contribution)
Don’t worry.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Schedule 8 agreed to.
Clause 109 [Appointment of t...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c1369 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry; I did not quite get the noble Lord’s final stinging question.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1370-1 (Link to this contribution)
Our occupational pension system depends, in large, on trustees who play a vital role in the running ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1369-70 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 134A:
134A: Clause 109, page 51, line 13, leave out paragraph (a)
The noble L...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1372-3 (Link to this contribution)
I should mention my noble friend Lady Noakes, now we are almost at the end of the Bill, who apologis...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1372 (Link to this contribution)
I will withdraw the amendment, but I still have difficulty, not least with the Minister’s answer, wh...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1373-5 (Link to this contribution)
I seek to allay the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale.
Clause 110 addresses an issue wh...
Lord Lucas | 703 c1368 (Link to this contribution)
I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendments Nos. 134ZBB to ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c1368-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 134ZC:
134ZC: After Clause 108, insert the following new Clause—
““Payments to...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1369 (Link to this contribution)
Keen as I am—or rather, as I have been throughout the passage of this Bill—to consider the great raf...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1355-6 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise for that confusion; it is a rather difficult area. Those few noble Lords who have taken ...
Lord Lucas | 703 c1355 (Link to this contribution)
I am delighted to hear that and am very happy to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment No. 130FG, as an...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1354-5 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to tell the noble Lord that I agree with him about the importance of consultation with th...
Lord Lucas | 703 c1354 (Link to this contribution)
moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 130EW, Amendment No. 130FG:
130FG: Before Clause 107, line...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1354 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.
Mov...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 703 c1363-4 (Link to this contribution)
I support the amendment. I was attracted by the idea when it was raised earlier. Given that more and...
Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde | 703 c1362 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased to lend my support to my noble friend’s amendment. It is a small but important change t...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 703 c1360-2 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 134ZB:
134ZB: Before Clause 107, insert the following new Clause—
““Trivial co...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1363 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, have sympathy with the noble Baroness’s amendment, which would move the pensions savings reg...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 703 c1363 (Link to this contribution)
I add our support to the amendment so ably introduced by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. The key th...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1358 (Link to this contribution)
Never being one to resist a challenge, I can tell the noble Lord that rather than by the end of the ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1357-8 (Link to this contribution)
The amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, seeks to make the Government announce in P...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1359 (Link to this contribution)
It depends on when the election is called. I wish to seek the opinion of the Committee.
On Question...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1359 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps the noble Lord will permit me to intervene. He said that his party, given the chance—althoug...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1357 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 134:
134: Before Clause 107, insert the following new Clause—
““Announcement r...
Lord Fowler | 703 c1384 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has made a good offer—although it is slightly qualified by what the noble Lord, Lord Na...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1384 (Link to this contribution)
That is the point that I was going to make. I am a little unclear as to the remit of the SSRB, but I...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1386-7 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister’s amendment to this Bill has, to a certain extent, been foreshadowed by an amendment ta...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1385-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 136A:
136A: After Clause 114, insert the following new Clause—
““Disclosure of...
Lord Fowler | 703 c1384 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful. I should say to the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, that I am extremely grateful for his con...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1384 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to be involved in that. I should stress that I speak as a DWP Minister these days; I used...
Lord Fowler | 703 c1377-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 136ZB:
136ZB: After Clause 111, insert the following new Clause—
““Parliamenta...
Lord Naseby | 703 c1379 (Link to this contribution)
I declare an interest as a trustee. First, when I was appointed as a trustee in your Lordships’ Hous...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1376 (Link to this contribution)
That is extremely helpful. None the less, we believe that the regulator is not the correct answer. I...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1376-7 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 134C:
134C: After Clause 110, insert the following new Clause—
““Delegation of...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1376 (Link to this contribution)
That was not what I was asking. Was I right in understanding the Minister’s assurance that the regul...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1376 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, the noble Lord is right in his understanding; that is what I said.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1376 (Link to this contribution)
I stress the point that issues of prudence are fundamentally a matter for the trustees, but the regu...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1375-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful for that, and there are plenty of people outside who will be even more grateful.
...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1375 (Link to this contribution)
If it would help the noble Lord, the information that I have is that we expect to update the notes o...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1375 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I might respond to one or two of those points. I was well aware that there was a proposal to...
Lord Fowler | 703 c1383-4 (Link to this contribution)
Let us cut out this ridiculous nonsense about whether it was a Conservative Government or a Labour G...
Lord Crickhowell | 703 c1383 (Link to this contribution)
There is a difficulty, of course, if this is done by changes in the regulations. Apart from anything...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1383 (Link to this contribution)
At this stage, I am suggesting that, if the noble Lord feels able not to press his amendment, perhap...
Lord Naseby | 703 c1383 (Link to this contribution)
Speaking as a trustee, I know that one of the frustrations of the current trustees is the slow respo...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1383 (Link to this contribution)
I certainly remember 1993 and the Conservative Government.
Lord Fowler | 703 c1380 (Link to this contribution)
My noble friend seems to be extending the debate. If I may advise him, I would say that that is not ...
Lord Naseby | 703 c1379 (Link to this contribution)
My noble friend may well have his viewpoint, which many of us may share, but I would simply re-empha...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1382-3 (Link to this contribution)
I should start by declaring an interest as a very modest member of the scheme. I thank the noble Lor...
Lord Crickhowell | 703 c1380-2 (Link to this contribution)
In making my first intervention on this Bill, I declare an interest as one of those who was affected...
Lord Fowler | 703 c1379 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome my noble friend to the debate. He is indeed a trustee, and he is one of the exceptions amo...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1389 (Link to this contribution)
I was pointing out that fuel poverty affects a much wider group than pensioners alone.
Lord Mogg | 703 c1389-91 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that intervention and will come to it at the end of my contribution. What will the...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 703 c1388-9 (Link to this contribution)
I have a brief contribution to make on this important change being introduced by the Government. Fir...
Lord Mogg | 703 c1389 (Link to this contribution)
It may be a little surprising that I enter for the first time into such a dramatic Bill as this, but...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1395-6 (Link to this contribution)
Originally there were about 10,000 Kindertransportees. We are aware of 150 individuals who might ben...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1396 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 136AB:
136AB: After Clause 114, insert the following new Clause—
““Pre-1948 in...
Lord Fowler | 703 c1396-7 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 136AC:
136AC: Before Clause 115, insert the following new Clause—
““Review of ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1391-2 (Link to this contribution)
I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate, particularly those who have supported the am...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1392-3 (Link to this contribution)
I acknowledge that concern, but the starting point—and this came up in the energy debate—is that to ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1392 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister accuses me of unfair criticism. What lay behind my thought was that there will be a wel...
Lord Mogg | 703 c1393 (Link to this contribution)
The question posed by the noble Lord is a good one. The mention of that Bill suggests that it is a u...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1395 (Link to this contribution)
This is an eminently sensible and long overdue amendment. For a Pensions Bill, this and the previous...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1393-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 136AA:
136AA: After Clause 114, insert the following new Clause—
““Pre-1948 in...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c1399-400 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 138A:
138A: Clause 115, page 54, line 8, leave out subsection (5) and insert—
...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1400 (Link to this contribution)
Credit where credit is due—““for once””, the noble Lord might think. As with a previous amendment, I...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1400 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 139ZA and 139ZB:
139ZA: Clause 116, page 54, leave out line 12 and insert—
“...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1400 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 139ZC:
139ZC: Clause 117, page 54, line 42, after ““Part 1”” insert ““or secti...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1397-8 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister will remember that, when I supported my noble friend Lord Hunt’s amendment on the aboli...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1398-9 (Link to this contribution)
I start by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, for his amendment. He is absolutely right: we had s...
Lord Fowler | 703 c1399 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has given an interesting reply. I am extremely glad that, at long last, we have accepte...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1399 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 136B to 138:
136B: Clause 115, page 53, line 41, after ““power”” insert ““co...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1401-2 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 139ZE to 139E:
139ZE: Schedule 9, page 97, line 15, after ““6(1)”” insert ““...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 703 c1400-1 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 139ZD:
139ZD: After Clause 117, insert the following new Clause—
““Pre-consoli...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1403-4 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 141E to 141H:
141E: Clause 120, page 55, line 19, at end insert—
““( ) secti...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1404 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 142 to 143:
142: Clause 121, page 55, line 30, at end insert ““and section 8...
Lord Skelmersdale | 703 c1403 (Link to this contribution)
I am glad that the Minister added that last tiny paragraph. I, too, express my gratitude and that of...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 703 c1403 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may also say, on behalf of my colleagues, how grateful we are to the Minister. He has endl...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1402 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 141A to 141D:
141A: Clause 120, page 55, line 18, at end insert—
““( ) secti...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1402 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 140A to 141:
140A: Schedule 9, page 99, line 13, at end insert—
140B: Sche...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1356-7 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that the noble Lord will agree that what we have had over the past few days is a series of im...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1393 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord for that intervention. I want to be clear with regard to data sharing, about ...
Lord Lucas | 703 c1365-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 134ZBA:
134ZBA: Before Clause 107, insert the following new Clause—
““Publishi...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 703 c1402-3 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 141DA:
141DA: Clause 120, page 55, line 19, at end insert—
““( ) section 111;”...
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