Education and Skills Bill. Lords Committee stage first day. Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.
Education and Skills Bill
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Wednesday, 25 June 2008,
in the House of Lords.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
702 c1449-87,1511-32Session
2007-08Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Education and Skills Bill. Brought from the Commons. (Explanatory notes HL Bill 58-EN published).
Wednesday, 14 May 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Wednesday, 14 May 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Adonis | 702 c1529-30 (Link to this contribution)
I sense that we are going through the motions slightly, having had an extremely long debate that wen...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1529 (Link to this contribution)
We share the aspirations of the Government but feel that compulsion is the wrong route. I agree with...
Show all contributions (92)
Baroness Walmsley | 702 c1528-9 (Link to this contribution)
Noble Lords will be pleased to hear that, although I cannot promise to be quite as succinct as the n...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1526 (Link to this contribution)
That was a commendably succinct contribution.
Since 1997, apprenticeship starts have increased from...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 702 c1526-7 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry to interrupt the Minister. Am I not right in thinking that, while the number of apprentic...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1528 (Link to this contribution)
I shall need to come back to the noble Baroness on the precise relationship between the two, but my ...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1528 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp of Guildford, for her support....
Lord Adonis | 702 c1527 (Link to this contribution)
My information is that the proportion of apprenticeships at level 3 has remained at around 30 per ce...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 702 c1527 (Link to this contribution)
Can the Minister clarify the Train to Gain situation? My understanding had been that money going to ...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1524-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 18:
18: Clause 2, page 2, line 8, at end insert—
““( ) The duty under this sec...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 702 c1523-4 (Link to this contribution)
Critics will say that we are putting the cart before the horse; I still think that the Government ar...
Lord Lucas | 702 c1526 (Link to this contribution)
On the question of requiring suppliers to the public sector to take on apprentices, when I have trie...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 702 c1525-6 (Link to this contribution)
On these Benches we have a great deal of sympathy for these amendments. As I mentioned on the previo...
Baroness Walmsley | 702 c1519 (Link to this contribution)
It is supposed to lead on further and to be a gateway for those young people who are not ready for a...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 702 c1519-21 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 16:
16: Clause 2, page 2, line 8, at end insert—
““( ) The duty under this sec...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1521 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness, Lady Sharp of Guildford, is right about the swathe of change going on at the mom...
Baroness Perry of Southwark | 702 c1521-2 (Link to this contribution)
I have only a brief word to add. I have been around in education for a long time. While five years s...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1522-3 (Link to this contribution)
In response to Amendment No. 16, we absolutely acknowledge that we could not require all young peopl...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1523 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful for what the Minister said about our amendment; I think that we are all looking f...
Baroness Walmsley | 702 c1531-2 (Link to this contribution)
I do not accept that the two options that the Minister puts before me are the only two tenable in th...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 702 c1532 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move that the House do now resume.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1530 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with everything that the Minister said, but is he telling us that he is happy to criminalise...
Baroness Perry of Southwark | 702 c1530 (Link to this contribution)
Before the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, replies to the Minister, can we clarify that in one of the...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1530-1 (Link to this contribution)
That was, in a sense, not the point I was making. It is not that other countries have been unable to...
Lord Lucas | 702 c1514 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for that elucidation. He is allowing himself to pursue a structure tha...
Lord Lucas | 702 c1516 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I had better explain. I cannot do better than to refer to the last speech of the noble Lord,...
Baroness Walmsley | 702 c1514-6 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 15:
15: Clause 2, page 1, line 20, at end insert ““, or
( ) have signed, and b...
Lord Dearing | 702 c1517 (Link to this contribution)
I rise briefly to support Amendment No. 50. This seems to me to be a constructive and positive appro...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1516-7 (Link to this contribution)
We support the Liberal Democrats on the new clause on learning and support contracts, as we did in a...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1517-9 (Link to this contribution)
I start with Amendment No. 50 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, which inserts a new ...
Lord Lucas | 702 c1519 (Link to this contribution)
I am delighted at that good news and at the good news that we shall have an education Bill next year...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1519 (Link to this contribution)
That is subject to decisions on the Queen’s Speech.
Baroness Walmsley | 702 c1519 (Link to this contribution)
I thank noble Lords who supported these amendments or at least one of them. I thank the Minister for...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1519 (Link to this contribution)
It depends what is in it.
Lord Adonis | 702 c1449 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.
Moved acc...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1449-51 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 1:
1: Clause 1, page 1, line 7, at beginning insert—
““( ) This Part does not ...
Baroness Perry of Southwark | 702 c1453-4 (Link to this contribution)
My name is attached to some of the amendments in this group. I wish to relate some personal experien...
Lord Lucas | 702 c1455 (Link to this contribution)
I entirely support what the noble Baroness, Lady Perry, has just said. A number of these young peopl...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 702 c1455-6 (Link to this contribution)
I support the intentions behind these amendments. It is quite clear that all of us have grave concer...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1464 (Link to this contribution)
The letter, which the noble Baroness has not yet had the opportunity to read, deals with the first i...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1463 (Link to this contribution)
I will take the points made by the noble Baroness in turn. There is an elaborate appeal process set ...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 702 c1463-4 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to put two further questions to the Minister. I regret that we on these Benches have not had ...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1461-2 (Link to this contribution)
The amendment seeks to probe what we mean by residence for the purposes of obligation under the Bill...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 702 c1463 (Link to this contribution)
I have two further questions about Clause 39. The noble Lord will know that my constant concern is a...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1457-61 (Link to this contribution)
I had not meant to bring the noble Lord’s remarks to such an abrupt close. It is kind of him to gree...
Earl of Listowel | 702 c1456-7 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Morris of Bolton, for being absent from the Chamber when she...
Lord Elton | 702 c1457 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, has raised the important question of discretion without addressing wh...
Lord Dearing | 702 c1456 (Link to this contribution)
The intention of the Bill is absolutely right. However, Members of the Committee are equally right i...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 702 c1473-4 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness has said many of the things I wanted to, so I shall begin by explaining why I cou...
Lord Dearing | 702 c1474-5 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, rightly told me that I was trapped. I am glad to be. I would like...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1468-70 (Link to this contribution)
Given that the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, has dealt in these two amendments with the issue of co...
Baroness Perry of Southwark | 702 c1470-1 (Link to this contribution)
I support the spirit of the amendments. It is immensely important not to introduce the element of ed...
Lord Elton | 702 c1471 (Link to this contribution)
I remind the Minister that we already have compulsion up to the age of 16 and that the Bill moves th...
Baroness Morris of Yardley | 702 c1472-3 (Link to this contribution)
I should like to make a brief contribution of two or three points to the debate. This is an excellen...
Lord Lucas | 702 c1464 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that the Minister will copy me in on that letter. Accreditation is not a simple affair, as I ...
Earl of Listowel | 702 c1465 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps the Minister can indicate how many parenting courses are currently accredited in the way tha...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1465-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful as always to the Minister for answering our concerns with his customary care and ...
Baroness Walmsley | 702 c1466-8 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 4:
4: Clause 1, page 1, line 10, at end insert ““, and
( ) has not written to ...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 702 c1475-6 (Link to this contribution)
I will be brief because I have also been caught in the trap, as it were. I am happy to support the a...
Lord Lucas | 702 c1477-8 (Link to this contribution)
Many good points have been made, but I feel most strongly about two. First, on the point made by my ...
Earl of Listowel | 702 c1476-7 (Link to this contribution)
Listening to the strong arguments deployed based on concerns about bringing more children into the c...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 702 c1478 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise for perhaps having misled the Minister. I had intended to say that I took my own advice,...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1478 (Link to this contribution)
I am distressed to hear that the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, does not have a level 3 qualification. I...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1478-82 (Link to this contribution)
The good judgment of the LSE shines through. I am always mindful when I listen to my noble friend La...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for answering the concerns in our amendments on criminality. He mentio...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
I will write to the noble Earl setting out in detail the response to all those points.
Lord Adonis | 702 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
A number of noble Lords have raised this point. It is a point of real concern. The rehabilitation pe...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
I believe the answer is no; it would not turn up on a CRB check. I will confirm that and write to th...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
Would it not turn up on an enhanced CRB check? I think that we have all been briefed that it would.
Lord Lucas | 702 c1484 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may complete my question. I would be interested in an answer to the noble Baroness, Lady W...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1484 (Link to this contribution)
The problem is that the police are pressed to do all the CRB checks that they are doing at the momen...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1484 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry. I believe the answer is that it depends on whether the police judge the information rele...
Lord Lucas | 702 c1483 (Link to this contribution)
When the Minister writes to my noble friend, will he let her and me know how many young people in ea...
Lord Lucas | 702 c1484 (Link to this contribution)
I did not hear an answer to Amendment No. 4. Are the Government prepared to allow the obligation to ...
Baroness Perry of Southwark | 702 c1484 (Link to this contribution)
On a slightly different note, when the Minister described the OECD ratings of countries that had com...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 702 c1484 (Link to this contribution)
If the offence was not an imprisonable offence but a fine was imposed and the fine was not paid, one...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1484 (Link to this contribution)
That may not have been in my full briefing, but I will write to follow up on it. The position in thi...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 702 c1487 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move that the House do now resume.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
...
Baroness Walmsley | 702 c1485-7 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Baroness for her intervention. I do not believe that providing the right to postpo...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1511-2 (Link to this contribution)
I endorse everything that my noble friend said. We also have amendments in this group: Amendment No....
Lord Lucas | 702 c1511 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 14:
14: Clause 2, page 1, line 18, after ““full-time”” insert ““or part-time””...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1484 (Link to this contribution)
No, we are not, for the reasons that I set out. We believe that it is important that young people ar...
Baroness Morris of Bolton | 702 c1485 (Link to this contribution)
On the list of exemptions, these were probing amendments. We were not saying that these are the cate...
Baroness Walmsley | 702 c1485 (Link to this contribution)
I rose briefly just then because I wanted to make a point that I thought might assist the Minister i...
Baroness Perry of Southwark | 702 c1512-3 (Link to this contribution)
It is an odd grouping of amendments which brings together the question asked by my noble friend Lord...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 702 c1512 (Link to this contribution)
We have some sympathy with these amendments, particularly Amendments Nos. 30, 32, 34 and 113. We sha...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1513-4 (Link to this contribution)
I am glad to have the opportunity to spell out more fully our position on accreditation, because, as...
Lord Adonis | 702 c1530 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness uses emotive words. Am I saying that there should ultimately be a sanction for th...
Baroness Sharp of Guildford | 702 c1451-3 (Link to this contribution)
I support the amendments tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Morris. I shall speak to Amendments Nos....
Earl of Listowel | 702 c1482 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for his careful and lengthy response on this important area. Can he provide som...
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