UK Parliament / Open data

Offender Management Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 5 June 2007, in the House of Lords, led by Baroness Scotland of Asthal.

Offender Management Bill. Lords Committee stage fourth day. Clauses 4 and 6 agreed to. Clause 5 agreed to as amended. Schedule 1 agreed to as amended. Part 1 of 2 records.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

692 c1024-91

Session

2006-07

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

Government defeats
New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Offender Management Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 47-EN also published.
Thursday, 1 March 2007
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1080-1 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment to which I have added my name, but I will speak especially to Amendment No....

Lord Judd | 692 c1082 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, agree that while of course we must be on our guard against th...

Show all contributions (101)

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1085 (Link to this contribution) I am in violent agreement with many who have spoken. As the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, indicated, ...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1085 (Link to this contribution) If there was any suggestion to the contrary by the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth—there probably was n...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1085 (Link to this contribution) The Bill is silent on it.

Lord Warner | 692 c1082-3 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended speaking on this amendment, but some of the remarks sound rather professionally p...

Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 692 c1082 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the noble Lord is saying anything different from what I have just said. High-lev...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1084-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment No. 86, which is tucked modestly in with this group. Almost eve...

Earl of Listowel | 692 c1083-4 (Link to this contribution) These amendments do not necessarily work against what the two previous speakers have said. We have d...

Lord Dholakia | 692 c1076 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to enter the whole debate that took place when the appointment of chief probation offi...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 692 c1075-6 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my noble friends Lady Gibson and Lady Turner will be aware that the issue covered by ...

Lord Ramsbotham | 692 c1079-80 (Link to this contribution) The amendments to which I have put my name have already been most admirably covered by the noble Lor...

Lord Hylton | 692 c1079 (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments gives me the opportunity to make a point about the Parole Board. I understa...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 692 c1078-9 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment to which my name is added, moved so eloquently by the noble Lord, Lord Judd,...

Lord Judd | 692 c1077-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 67: 67: Clause 6, page 5, line 7, after ““person”” insert ““or institution”” ...

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 692 c1076-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords who have taken part in the discussion, which has been interesting. I am not exac...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 692 c1076 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is talking about the machinery for negotiating wages and conditions. Of course, t...

Lord Dholakia | 692 c1076 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister is talking about it, why under that paragraph will the trust not only appoint its st...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 692 c1076 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord draws too much into those words. Those staff will be TUPE-ed—I think that that is the...

Lord Judd | 692 c1067 (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as a half Scot. It seems to me that, occasionally, we south of the Border coul...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1067-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank all Members of the Committee who have taken part in this not-so-short debate on a core issue...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1067 (Link to this contribution) We certainly have looked at the Scottish situation, which differs from ours. I emphasise to my noble...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1070 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 62: 62: Schedule 1, page 25, line 15, at end insert— ““(c) a magistrate for th...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1068 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 61: 61: Schedule 1, page 25, line 15, at end insert ““; and (c) a magistrate.”...

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 692 c1072-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 65: 65: Schedule 1, page 26, line 15, leave out ““are for the trust to determi...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1072 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 63: 63: Schedule 1, page 25, line 18, at end insert— ““(3) Where practicable, ...

Lord Dholakia | 692 c1074 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. The argument is not about central employment as against local employment of...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 692 c1073-4 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s amendment. Schedule 1 transfers the determination of terms and condition...

Lord Ramsbotham | 692 c1074-5 (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment. I am particularly interested in what the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, s...

Lord Judd | 692 c1062 (Link to this contribution) That is an extremely helpful and generous response by my noble friend. Indeed, I had hoped to speak ...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1061-2 (Link to this contribution) I shall sit down altogether. I looked around the Chamber—I am afraid that I did not look behind me b...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 692 c1061 (Link to this contribution) There was a look of bafflement on so many faces that I certainly thought that the Minister was getti...

Viscount Tenby | 692 c1061 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting, but we rather galloped on. I did not know that people were not going t...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 692 c1063-4 (Link to this contribution) I, too, apologise for speaking later than I should have done for the same reasons given by other nob...

Lord Ramsbotham | 692 c1063 (Link to this contribution) I am also grateful to the Minister for giving us time to speak. My contribution is not huge and I ha...

Viscount Tenby | 692 c1062-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for her customary courtesy and kindness in providing us with this opportunity. ...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1062 (Link to this contribution) I was clearly at fault in being slow off the mark, because Amendment No. 62 is in my name and in the...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 692 c1064 (Link to this contribution) I will speak briefly because I am conscious that we wish to make progress. I strongly support Amendm...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1064-7 (Link to this contribution) I hope that noble Lords have now explored the issues that they want to explore so that I can respond...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1061 (Link to this contribution) Some people will have a plethora of skills. I look across the way at the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay...

Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 692 c1061 (Link to this contribution) Will the people concerned therefore not be representatives of any group, whatever group they come fr...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1060-1 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord and the noble Baroness make important points. We need clarity in terms of criteria an...

Lord Dholakia | 692 c1060 (Link to this contribution) May I also put a question to the Minister? If it is necessary to put a judge as a specified person t...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1058-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving way. I was trying to give her credit and say that, on...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1059-60 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for her compliment, which I take in the spirit in which I always take com...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1057-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 60: 60: Schedule 1, page 25, line 13, leave out ““four”” and insert ““five”” ...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1058 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for raising this issue as it enables me to deal in part with government A...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1055 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 59: 59: Clause 5, page 4, line 43, at end insert— ““( ) An order under subsect...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1054 (Link to this contribution) The Minister was right to anticipate my support for government Amendment No. 129. That means, of cou...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1053-4 (Link to this contribution) As I have indicated, the criteria for becoming a trust have been consulted upon. I shall certainly l...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1055 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Warner, would have a stronger point if the Government had not conceded already ...

Lord Warner | 692 c1054 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Baroness explain why there is such a difference, when primary care trusts have both a ...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1048-50 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support both what my noble friend has said and the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady A...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 692 c1053 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for those reassuring words. Many on this side of the Committee welcome the comm...

Lord Ramsbotham | 692 c1053 (Link to this contribution) I should like to ask the Minister two questions. I am grateful for her clarification, but by what cr...

Lord Ramsbotham | 692 c1047-8 (Link to this contribution) I found it interesting that in an earlier answer the Minister said that there is a requirement to gi...

Lord Warner | 692 c1048 (Link to this contribution) I understand the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, about seeking more clarity on how the ...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1045-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 55: 55: Clause 5, page 4, line 14, at end insert— ““( ) An order made under su...

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 692 c1045 (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate, which has been very useful. I thank my n...

Lord Bassam of Brighton | 692 c1041-5 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the debate with great interest and care. The noble Baroness, Lady Gibson, touched...

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 692 c1041 (Link to this contribution) I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth—I have tremendous respect for her knowledge and expertise ...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 692 c1046-7 (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Baroness’s amendment. We are moving towards a series of amendments discussing wh...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1038-9 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment because it goes to the heart of the anxiety of people in this field about co...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 692 c1041 (Link to this contribution) The more I listen to both sides of the argument on the amendment, the more persuaded I am that reass...

Earl of Listowel | 692 c1041 (Link to this contribution) There is one area of reassurance that the Minister might be able to offer. Again and again I hear fr...

Lord Northbourne | 692 c1040-1 (Link to this contribution) I support what my noble friend has said. We are talking about a change of ethos to that of a busines...

Lord Warner | 692 c1037-8 (Link to this contribution) I rise, not quite so quickly, to oppose the amendment. It is an unnecessarily bureaucratic way of de...

Baroness Stern | 692 c1037 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment, to which my name is attached. I appreciated hearing what the noble Lord, Lo...

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 692 c1038 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble friend therefore disagree with the Home Secretary in the other place, who seemed to in...

Lord Warner | 692 c1038 (Link to this contribution) I know that we are in Committee and that I am no longer a Minister—although it is beginning to feel ...

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 692 c1036 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 53: 53: After Clause 4, insert the following new Clause— ““Factors for determi...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 692 c1036 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend in moving the amendment. It is as well to remind ourselves that Clause 3(2...

Lord Ramsbotham | 692 c1036 (Link to this contribution) I have added my name to the amendment. Subsection (1)(b) states that minimum targets shall not be se...

Earl of Listowel | 692 c1036-7 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. I listened carefully to what the Minister said previously about involvement...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1035 (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to the Minister. I share with the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, a sense of ...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1034 (Link to this contribution) Before, as I anticipate, the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, moves to withdraw the amendment, perhap...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1034-5 (Link to this contribution) All those issues will have to be looked at. Let us not consider this from the point of view of the v...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1033-4 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness was not there when I last looked, and I am greatly relieved because on the last o...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1032 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister not forgetting the whole area of interventions? My amendment specifically relates no...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1032-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness referred, I think, to the community pay-back work and the way in which that can b...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1030-2 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should start by assuring the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, that I am totally at one with my...

Lord Northbourne | 692 c1030 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, clarify one point? In the context of the amendment, how do ...

Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 692 c1028-30 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, was right to press the Government for clarity on ...

Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 692 c1025-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 51: 51: Clause 4, page 4, line 9, at end insert ““; and (c) relates to the sup...

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 692 c1026-7 (Link to this contribution) I speak to Amendments Nos. 51A and 51B which are in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Turner....

Lord Warner | 692 c1027-8 (Link to this contribution) Although I understand the thinking of the supporters of the amendment, the amendment is effectively ...

Lord Judd | 692 c1028 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may be permitted to respond to those remarks by my noble friend. As someone who has put hi...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1024 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Mov...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1085-8 (Link to this contribution) I do not think we have been silent. Let me remind the noble Baroness about the history of what we in...

Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 692 c1088-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way. As I think I explained, I was seeking clarification of what the...

Earl of Listowel | 692 c1089 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister responds to my noble friend’s comments, I hope I may be helpful. This is an adju...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1089-90 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, for the way she now accepts that the thrust of what ...

Lord Judd | 692 c1090-1 (Link to this contribution) I express profound gratitude to all those noble Lords who have spoken in this very important debate....

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1091 (Link to this contribution) I think this is an appropriate moment to break and suggest that the Committee begin again at 8.45 pm...

Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 692 c1081-2 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to speak at this juncture but the speech made by the noble Baroness has spurred m...

Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 692 c1060 (Link to this contribution) May I ask the noble Baroness a question that I would have asked at the beginning, only she did not n...

Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 692 c1050-3 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I will be able to give the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, the clarity that she seeks, and ...

Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 692 c1039-40 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for not being present at the beginning of this debate and for missing this riveting disc...

Lord Warner | 692 c1038 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I am disagreeing with the Home Secretary, but I do not think that when he made h...

Lord Ramsbotham | 692 c1038 (Link to this contribution) I remind the noble Lord, Lord Warner, that the Explanatory Notes set out the framework for what is p...

Lord Hylton | 692 c1089 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister responds, I remind her of my point about the Parole Board.

Subjects

Conditions of employment

Contracts

Councillors

Finance

Offenders

Private sector

Qualifications

Pay

Membership

Management

Staff

Magistrates

Probation

National Probation Service for England and Wales

Rehabilitation

Standards

Voluntary organisations

Training

Probation trusts

Legislation

Offender Management Bill 2006-07

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk