Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill. Programme motion (No 2) on proceedings on consideration of Lords amendments. Agreed to on question. Lords amendment 2 disagreed to on division (299 votes to 228). Lords amendments 3, 5, 6 and 10 disagreed to. Amendment in lieu agreed to. Lords amendments 1, 4, 7-9 and 11-35 agreed to.
Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
460 c661-707Session
2006-07Legislative stage
Lords amendmentsChamber / Committee
House of Commons chamberRelated items
Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill. Lords amendments. Explanatory Notes Bill 70-EN also published.
Wednesday, 28 February 2007
Bills
House of Commons
Wednesday, 28 February 2007
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c707 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to hon. Members for their support. I would not minimise in any way the effect of such ...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c705-6 (Link to this contribution)
We need to look at the reasons why the amendment was necessary. It was necessary because of the bigg...
Show all contributions (97)
Tony Baldry | 460 c706-7 (Link to this contribution)
May I endorse everything that the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) has said? The test of the Bil...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c705 (Link to this contribution)
I certainly welcome the amendment. It responds to concerns that I raised in the course of our discus...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c704-5 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
In similar vein to the ...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c704 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to Members for their support. I agree that the amendment will be a significant part of...
Ed Davey | 460 c704 (Link to this contribution)
I rise to agree with the contributions from the hon. Members for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve) and for He...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c704 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with what the hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) has just said. It is difficult to en...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c703 (Link to this contribution)
I am delighted with Lords amendment No. 25, which will be a very powerful tool in shaming organisati...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c702-3 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 25 goes to an important aspect of the Bill that we considered in some detail in our de...
Speaker | 460 c702 (Link to this contribution)
With this we may discuss Lords amendment No. 25.
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c702 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c702 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for the support of hon. Members.
Lords amendment agreed to.
Lords amendments Nos. 7 ...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c701 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Lord Hanson of Flint | 460 c701 (Link to this contribution)
I will have to reflect on that point, because I am not clear whether city academies are themselves c...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c701 (Link to this contribution)
What will be the status of city academies?
Lord Hanson of Flint | 460 c700-1 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed. I was not in Committee at that time, but I am studying with interest this legislation’s prog...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c702 (Link to this contribution)
All these amendments seem to be very sensible. I will draw the amendment allowing separate commencem...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c701-2 (Link to this contribution)
These amendments make minor and drafting amendments to the Bill. This group deals with several amend...
Speaker | 460 c701 (Link to this contribution)
With this we may discuss Lords amendments Nos. 7 to 9, 11 to 21, 23, 24, 26, 27, 33 and 34.
Dominic Grieve | 460 c700 (Link to this contribution)
And on Second Reading.
Lord Hanson of Flint | 460 c700 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the official Opposition and to the Liberal Democrats for their support for the amen...
Ed Davey | 460 c700 (Link to this contribution)
I rise simply to support the amendments and to echo the comments of the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 460 c696 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c692 (Link to this contribution)
I understand why my hon. Friend wants to push me, but he will understand why I decline to be pushed....
Lord Hanson of Flint | 460 c696-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am new to the post at the Ministry of Justice, so I have not had the pleasure of taking part in th...
Speaker | 460 c696 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss Lords amendments Nos. 28, 29, 31, 32 and 35.
Andrew Dismore | 460 c699 (Link to this contribution)
I raised the issue we are discussing on Second Reading and on Report, which shows how strongly I fee...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c698-9 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome the Minister to what I believe is his first outing to deal with legislation on behalf of h...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c699-700 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point, which I was going to address. When we reviewed the progress o...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c699 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Gentleman recalls the relevant debates, he will remember that I suggested there was a co...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c692 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has given us a good timetable for the forum. I welcome that—it is a reasonable approa...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c691-2 (Link to this contribution)
I do not accept that. That will not be the case because, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Sout...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c677 (Link to this contribution)
No, it is not illogical. As I have readily conceded, the article 2 problem remains for the Governmen...
Jeremy Wright | 460 c677 (Link to this contribution)
Is it not wholly illogical to argue, as the hon. Gentleman appears to be doing, that if further prot...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c676-7 (Link to this contribution)
Some practicalities are involved. Everyone in the House would concede that the Prison Service is in ...
Chris Mullin | 460 c672 (Link to this contribution)
May we take it from the tone of the hon. Gentleman’s remarks that a Conservative Government who foun...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c672-3 (Link to this contribution)
Yes—undoubtedly. On Report, I made the point that I must face up to the fact that, were I a Minister...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c674-6 (Link to this contribution)
I say to the Minister that I acknowledge that the Government have moved quite a long way—certainly i...
Ed Davey | 460 c676 (Link to this contribution)
Can the hon. Gentleman think of a good reason to wait for the measure to be put into legislation?
James Duddridge | 460 c673 (Link to this contribution)
When the statutory instrument is brought forward under a Conservative Government, will the definitio...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c673-4 (Link to this contribution)
It is absolutely vital that it should. My hon. Friend is quite right to raise that issue. I have to ...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c668-9 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend said that the Government had form. She was a member of the Government at the time she...
Fiona Mactaggart | 460 c668 (Link to this contribution)
I am glad that the Government are contemplating including custody in the offence; my anxiety is that...
Lord Garnier | 460 c670-1 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government’s arguments stand at odds with our own experience? The...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c669-70 (Link to this contribution)
Throughout these proceedings, I have always been absolutely satisfied as to the sincerity of the Min...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c667 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, but then I need to make progress.
James Duddridge | 460 c667 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for giving way. Will he give an indication of when the review might take place?...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c667-8 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that that is not the case. We are trying to meet the requirements placed on us in the discuss...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c668 (Link to this contribution)
It would be helpful to have some clarification. When the Minister wrote to explain what the Governme...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c668 (Link to this contribution)
That certainly is not the case. The debate on the Bill has been conducted in a generous spirit and I...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c691 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry to have to press the Minister on this. Is the implication behind his comments that, if th...
Lord Garnier | 460 c685-6 (Link to this contribution)
I do not want to have an argument with the hon. Gentleman about the numbers. We are seeing self-infl...
Ed Davey | 460 c691 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister ask the review to consider whether the power that Liberal Democrat and Conservativ...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c691 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that the chair of the forum will be robust, as he already has been in talking to me, about...
Stewart Hosie | 460 c690 (Link to this contribution)
May I have one more go at the Minister on this point? In Glasgow tonight there will be 60,000 Spanis...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c690-1 (Link to this contribution)
We have to remember that in the Bill the duty of care has to be seen in the context of a gross breac...
Jeremy Wright | 460 c688-9 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, hope that the House does not reject the amendments in this group that the other place has se...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c690 (Link to this contribution)
I thank all hon. Members for the quality of the debate and for their welcome for the way in which th...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c686 (Link to this contribution)
I think that the hon. and learned Gentleman is mixing up two different things. The measure would not...
Lord Garnier | 460 c686-8 (Link to this contribution)
I suspect that it probably will. While I take on board the hon. Gentleman’s assertion that my argume...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c685 (Link to this contribution)
I just want to put the record straight as the Joint Committee on Human Rights understands it from th...
Lord Garnier | 460 c683-5 (Link to this contribution)
I fully appreciate what the right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr. Denham) has said about hi...
Ed Davey | 460 c679 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that intervention because I totally agree. The hon. Gentleman was, I think, echoin...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c679 (Link to this contribution)
Has the hon. Gentleman seen the letters from the British Transport police and several chief constabl...
Ed Davey | 460 c679-82 (Link to this contribution)
Former chief constables in the other place argued contrary to that. I am sure that the Minister will...
John Denham | 460 c682-3 (Link to this contribution)
I speak on behalf of those who are prepared to accept the Government’s proposals—or to be bought off...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c677-8 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has put his finger on the Government’s reason for not wanting the Bill to be used in ...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c678 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I know that others wish to speak, and I have taken a number of inte...
Ed Davey | 460 c678-9 (Link to this contribution)
I think it is fair to say that the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) and his Committee have been ...
Stewart Hosie | 460 c679 (Link to this contribution)
I concede that the practical measures are welcome and that custody is no longer an issue: it could a...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c662 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That this House disagrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 460 c662 (Link to this contribution)
With this we may discuss Lords amendments Nos. 3, 5, 6 and 10 and the Government motions to disagree...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c662 (Link to this contribution)
I am proud to say that we are nearly there with the Bill and with getting a new offence of corporate...
Lord Garnier | 460 c663 (Link to this contribution)
Can the Minister tell the House why the argument that he is putting forward is not in conflict with ...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c663 (Link to this contribution)
I will come on to the issues around the Human Rights Act. Clearly, we believe that by lifting Crown ...
Ed Davey | 460 c665 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister confirm that that statutory footing will not give the ombudsman the power to estab...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c665 (Link to this contribution)
We are concerned about public policy issues relating to the distribution of resources to particular ...
Jeremy Wright | 460 c666 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister’s preference is clearly a measure that will allow the Secretary of State to make regula...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c666 (Link to this contribution)
Again, we will want to examine the detail of the role and responsibilities when we consider the next...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c665 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister squarely raised a point about cost. My understanding, as it was in Committee—I have rea...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c667 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. and learned Gentleman will have read the Hansard report in which I said that I hope that th...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c666-7 (Link to this contribution)
I hope to do that. I am grateful for that intervention and the hon. Gentleman’s involvement througho...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c667 (Link to this contribution)
My response to my hon. Friend, and to the other hon. Members who have asked, ““Why are you waiting?”...
Lord Garnier | 460 c667 (Link to this contribution)
If the Minister is right in his expectations, there probably will not be any prosecutions.
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c663 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. and learned Gentleman is trying to take me down an avenue that I do not wish to go down thi...
Lord Garnier | 460 c663 (Link to this contribution)
During the passage of the Human Rights Bill in this House—the Minister may well have taken part in t...
Lord Garnier | 460 c663 (Link to this contribution)
Can I press the Minister further on that?
Ed Davey | 460 c664 (Link to this contribution)
When we are considering custody, do we not want the authorities to be risk averse? If someone is at ...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c664-5 (Link to this contribution)
Certainly not. We actively try to avoid deaths in custody. I will speak a little later about how we ...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c663-4 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening carefully to the Minister, but I find that aspect of his exposé quite astonishing. Cu...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c664 (Link to this contribution)
It is for the hon. Gentleman to decide whether I make a bad or a good point. I am trying to explain ...
Andrew Dismore | 460 c663 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware that my Committee, like other Select Committees, has produced...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 460 c663 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who chairs the Joint Committee on Human Rights. I know that its del...
Dominic Grieve | 460 c671-2 (Link to this contribution)
I entirely agree with my hon. and learned Friend. The irony of the situation is that health trusts w...
Chris Mullin | 460 c667 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome the Government’s considerable movement on the issue. Will the Minister give us some idea o...
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