UK Parliament / Open data

Legal Services Bill [HL]

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 9 January 2007, in the House of Lords.
Legal Services Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage, first day. Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to. Schedule 1 as amended agreed to. Clause 3 under consideration.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

688 c116-79 

Session

2006-07

Department

Department for Constitutional Affairs

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Legal Services Bill (HL). In two volumes. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 9-EN also published.
Thursday, 23 November 2006
Bills
House of Lords
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. Third report on Cluster Munitions (Prohibition) Bill (HL); Concessionary Bus Travel Bill (HL); Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill; Disabled Persons (Independent Living) Bill (HL); Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Bill (HL): Further Education and Training Bill (HL); Investment Exchanges and Clearing Houses Bill; Legal Services Bill (HL); Consumers Estate Agents and Redress Bill (HL) - Government response; Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Bill (HL) - Government response.
Wednesday, 13 December 2006
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c156 (Link to this contribution) If the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chief Justice were consulted about a person and he said, ““No...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 688 c160 (Link to this contribution) I just want this clarified a little further. In saying that she does not intend to consider this ame...

Show all contributions (148)
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c159-60 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly consider how we might address any further concerns about independence. Whether that...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c159 (Link to this contribution) Can I just get clear what the noble Baroness is saying? For all the distance between us, I put the q...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c159 (Link to this contribution) May I finish my point? Also, there is a perception, wrong though it may be, about the Lord Chief Jus...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c158-9 (Link to this contribution) My noble and learned friend was indicating the views of consumer organisations and groups and not hi...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c158 (Link to this contribution) I am disappointed to hear what the Minister has just said, as will be all the members of the Joint C...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c156-8 (Link to this contribution) This has been a debate of great passion and I will think very carefully about all that has been said...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c160 (Link to this contribution) The Government’s position is that we set our face against the involvement of the Lord Chief Justice ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c160 (Link to this contribution) Yes indeed, and the noble Lord’s position is absolutely clear. I was indicating that the principle t...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 688 c160 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister clarify what she has just now said twice, about independence not being on the face ...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c163 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. I am certainly not going to reject the offer of an affirmative resolu...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c162-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that opportunity. It will not surprise him to hear that I do not want to ...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c164-5 (Link to this contribution) I have already, to some extent, spoken to the substance of this amendment, when I indicated the dang...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c163-4 (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 9: 9: Schedule 1 , page 112, line 12, leave out ““Secretary of State”” and inse...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 688 c162 (Link to this contribution) I remind noble Lords that if Amendment No. 8 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 9 because of ...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c160-1 (Link to this contribution) I had almost forgotten that I introduced this amendment, there having been so many eloquent speeches...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c162 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support my noble friend. We were treated to a very helpful report from the Delegated Powe...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c162 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8: 8: Schedule 1 , page 112, line 12, leave out sub-paragraph (3) The noble ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c166-7 (Link to this contribution) I have listened with great interest not only to the comments that have been made in the debate on th...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c166 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has already very kindly said that she will explain the difference between the use...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c165-6 (Link to this contribution) So do I. I also strongly support the words of my noble friend. I know that we have debated this alre...
Lord Lofthouse of Pontefract | 688 c167 (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 13A: 13A: Schedule 1 , page 112, line 17, ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c167 (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 11: 11: Schedule 1 , page 112, line 15, leave out ““Secretary of State”” and in...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c167 (Link to this contribution) The explanation that I gave was that, in the concordats with the Constitutional Reform Act, decision...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c167 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness was going to explain the difference between the Lord Chancellor and the Secretary...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c168 (Link to this contribution) I need to clarify this so I am clear that it is not me who is getting this wrong. The Bill says that...
Lord Lofthouse of Pontefract | 688 c168 (Link to this contribution) I am saying that he should not be a lawyer. I am not saying that because I have fallen out with some...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c168 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 14: 14: Schedule 1 , page 112, line 26, leave out ““never been”” and insert ““...
Lord Lofthouse of Pontefract | 688 c168 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister very much for that assurance. [Amendment No. 13A not moved.]
Lord Swinfen | 688 c169 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to intervene in this debate. I do so only because I was rather disappointed that the nobl...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 688 c168-9 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment. I have to confess that I feel a very subjective involvement in its terms s...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c169-70 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the contribution of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lyell, on this issue. Indeed,...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c169 (Link to this contribution) I see this really as a probing amendment, giving the Minister an opportunity for reflection. I can s...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c170 (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 17: 17: Schedule 1, page 113, line 17, leave out ““Secretary of State”” and ins...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c170 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Baroness. I think she has said enough to give me hope that on Report...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c171 (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches support the amendment. I hope that the Minister will at least give an assurance ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c170-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 19: 19: Schedule 1, page 113, line 17, at end insert ““secure that persons are...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c174 (Link to this contribution) My name is attached to this amendment and, of course, we support it from these Benches. It provides ...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c173-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 31: 31: Clause 3 , page 2, line 24, at end insert— ““( ) The Board must, so fa...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c173 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for giving us a different dimension which I confess I had not rea...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c173 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 20 to 23: 20: Schedule 1 , page 114, line 5, leave out ““Secretary of State”...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c173 (Link to this contribution) I was anxious not to interrupt the Minister because I felt the more she spoke, the more she would co...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c173 (Link to this contribution) They are not departing from it, not because of this piece of legislation but because of custom and p...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c172 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly bemused because I heard the noble Baroness say that we should not put in the Bill some...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c172 (Link to this contribution) There is an issue which I did not mention but have been thinking about. I talked about the principle...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c171-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the explanation of what noble Lords are seeking to achieve. I agree that the princ...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 688 c177 (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches agree with the argument put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland. In our ju...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c177-8 (Link to this contribution) I suppose that in this amendment we seek not to lose the ground that we have gained. We have now per...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c178 (Link to this contribution) I should be delighted to do that. The noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, and I had a brief conversation abo...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c179 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful for the Minister’s response. I accept that there may be difficulties with my craf...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 688 c175-6 (Link to this contribution) At Second Reading, I said that it would be a nice idea to get the concept of ““light touch”” into th...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c176 (Link to this contribution) I was reading some of the comments of my honourable friend Bridget Prentice when she appeared before...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c176 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister. I believe she has fully understood the point that we have tried ...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c177 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 32: 32: Clause 3 , page 2, line 25, leave out ““, so far as is reasonably prac...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c174-5 (Link to this contribution) I strongly agree with both my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford. We spent som...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c179 (Link to this contribution) I am less persuaded than usual by the Minister. However, she knows that I am not going to press the ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 688 c179 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c179 (Link to this contribution) That is the difference. We do not think we have entitled the board to ignore them. We have already s...
Lord Bach | 688 c156 (Link to this contribution) I have listened with great interest to what the noble Lord has had to say on this amendment. However...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c154-6 (Link to this contribution) If I can just finish the sentence. I prefer that the Lord Chief Justice should have to give his impr...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c151-2 (Link to this contribution) I wish to make a small point, without any notes. It may be thought that these arguments are advanced...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 688 c152-3 (Link to this contribution) I see sitting in the Chamber no fewer than five noble and learned Lords from Scotland, so I hesitate...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 688 c149-51 (Link to this contribution) My name is also on this amendment and it is correct that its language was my suggestion. I communica...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c151 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. I agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Neill of Bladen, has just said, in p...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c154 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bach, for reminding us of, I think, the only division that we ...
Lord Bach | 688 c154 (Link to this contribution) With the approval of the Lord Chief Justice.
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c153 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support almost everything that has been said. I am sure that it is right that the concurr...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c141 (Link to this contribution) Like the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, while applauding Amendments Nos. 10, 13, 15 and 16, my ...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c141 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my noble friend. He was focusing, as I understand it, on the words of the Cons...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c141-2 (Link to this contribution) Of course I agree with my noble and learned friend that every Minister is bound to uphold the rule o...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c142 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Baroness like to rephrase that sentence?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c142 (Link to this contribution) I probably need your Lordships’ help. We have strayed into debating three groups of amendments. It w...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c144 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether it is in order for me to speak briefly. I want to make a point that I do not w...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c142-4 (Link to this contribution) Probably, but I will not try—the noble Lord can do it for me. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Lyel...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 688 c146-7 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this exchange, which is beginning to focus on some of the questions that have caused conce...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c147 (Link to this contribution) It has perhaps escaped the Government that there is a conflict with the Government themselves in so ...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 688 c145-6 (Link to this contribution) I confess that I find the Minister's reply on this amendment somewhat disappointing. Although she ha...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c146 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to disappoint the noble Lord. I shall try to help him understand the direction in which I...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c145 (Link to this contribution) I have a small point but it may be important in relation to the amendments to come. When the Ministe...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c145 (Link to this contribution) The role of Her Majesty in determining appointments varies. I would not wish to suggest that Her Maj...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c144-5 (Link to this contribution) I completely respect and accept what the noble and learned Lord says about the importance of the leg...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c148-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5: 5: Schedule 1, page 112, line 6, at end insert ““with the concurrence of th...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c148 (Link to this contribution) This has been illustrated all over the world, perhaps critically in South Africa in the days of apar...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c147-8 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree that there is experience on the Continent, not least as the Weimar Republi...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c136-7 (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 4: 4: Schedule 1 , page 112, line 6, leave out ““the Secretary of State”” and i...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c137 (Link to this contribution) I always find it very difficult to understand why the Government decided to abolish the post of the ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c137 (Link to this contribution) That was the position on12 June 2003, but on 11 June 2003 we had a press release from No. 10 Downing...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c138 (Link to this contribution) I do not recognise ““rotund”” in relation to my noble and learned friend.
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c137-8 (Link to this contribution) That was a very helpful steer as to the comparative powers of the Prime Minister and the Government....
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c138 (Link to this contribution) I beg the noble Lord’s pardon, as I should not heckle—but he is so easily pushed.
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c138 (Link to this contribution) May I answer that comment by saying that I now look forward to the intervention of the noble Lord?
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c139-40 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment, at least as a very careful probing amendment. There seems to be a great dea...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c140 (Link to this contribution) First, I apologise for missing the first few moments of the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 688 c138 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord may be aware that there have been moves, under a sort of freedom information parallel...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c138-9 (Link to this contribution) This is a wonderful opportunity for us all to say that we look forward to the moment when that envel...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c140 (Link to this contribution) I think, as a Front-Bench spokesman for the Opposition, I am required by convention to speak before ...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 688 c140 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to intervene, but perhaps my noble friend should wait until we have had the Government’s ...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c140 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, for the amendments that he tabled. In some respec...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c140 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness was badly advised in that instance.
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c130 (Link to this contribution) Instead of promoting competition and the provision of services as one of the regulatory objectives, ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c130 (Link to this contribution) I am always delighted to broaden things out. One of the advantages of Committee is that it enables u...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c128-9 (Link to this contribution) That was speedier than I thought. I understand entirely what the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, is get...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c129-30 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her reply. We do not dispute the desirability of having comp...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c127-8 (Link to this contribution) I thought that it was uncharacteristic—not to say unworthy—of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, to sugges...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c128 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3: Page 1, line 9, at beginning insert ““subject to the objectives in paragrap...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c126-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree with a huge amount of what the noble Lord said. I say again that the Government took on boar...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c125-6 (Link to this contribution) I do believe we are making progress. I referred to the general principle of ““in the public interest...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c134-5 (Link to this contribution) Once again, we have had an interesting debate. In a sense, we began from Sir David Clementi’s final ...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c135 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister and to all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. My objective is...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c135-6 (Link to this contribution) While we are still dealing with Clause 1, I wanted to tell the Minister how much the Joint Committee...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c131-2 (Link to this contribution) In speaking to the question of whether Clause 1 should stand part of the Bill, I shall speak also to...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c133 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the noble Lord in opposing the question whether Clause 1 stand part of the Bill a...
Viscount Bledisloe | 688 c133-4 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may sound a word of caution. If you have three different boards with three different sets ...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 688 c134 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the last intervention, since I, too, came to the subject very late in our delibera...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c131 (Link to this contribution) We think it is for the regulator to determine in a particular set of circumstances which objective i...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c131 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. On Question, Whether Clause...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c116-7 (Link to this contribution) moved AmendmentNo. 1: 1: Clause 1 , page 1, line 7, at end insert— ““( ) protecting and promoting ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c117-8 (Link to this contribution) I strongly agree. It is difficult to understand what has changed since the previous Lord Chancellor ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c116 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on behalf of my noble and learned friend, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itse...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 688 c120 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, is correct about the Minister’s body language, I wish to say no more a...
Lord Graham of Edmonton | 688 c120 (Link to this contribution) As a person who does not claim to be at all familiar with the law, the legal professions or legal se...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 688 c118-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with everything that was said by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, and my noble frien...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 688 c119-20 (Link to this contribution) I spoke on Second Reading about this Bill and should perhaps declare my interest as a practising bar...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 688 c120-1 (Link to this contribution) I hope that we will make very heavy weather of this. I look forward to the Minister’s response, but ...
Lord Lyell of Markyate | 688 c121 (Link to this contribution) I support the objective of both amendments, although I slightly prefer Amendment No. 1. There is an ...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c121-2 (Link to this contribution) My name is attached to Amendment No. 2. I was a little unnerved by the intervention of the noble Lor...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 688 c122 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord take this opportunity to reply to the points raised by my noble friend about the...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c122-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I mentioned the legal profession in my reply. I certainly do not think that the ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c123-4 (Link to this contribution) I am clearly going to have to keep my body under control during the passage of this Bill. I should n...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 688 c124 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the Minister would be quite specific in addressing the point that has been made abo...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 688 c124-5 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Baroness bear in mind that the public understand very well the need for both these th...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c125 (Link to this contribution) What I should have said, as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, quite rightly indicated, is that it...
Lord Whitty | 688 c121 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the Minister’s body language is not too conciliatory on this. I declare an interest as c...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c137 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that we have abolished it. My noble and learned friend is the Lord Chancellor and the...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c167 (Link to this contribution) I beg my noble friend’s pardon, but I thought he asked why the first chairman should be a lawyer. Ma...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c140 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I do not sound like a member of the Opposition.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c136 (Link to this contribution) Thank you. Clause 1 agreed to. Clause 2 agreed to. [Amendment No. 3A not moved.] Schedule 1 [The...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 688 c173 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 25 to 30: 25: Schedule 1 , page 114, line 20, leave out ““Secretary of State...
Lord Bach | 688 c153-4 (Link to this contribution) What the Joint Committee said on this cannot be taken as gospel or as binding what this Committee de...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c137 (Link to this contribution) I am telling the noble Lord what we did, not what any press release might have said.
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 688 c138 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that this is a road that I should be walking slowly down, but I wanted to put the reco...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 688 c124 (Link to this contribution) They are. The purpose of the phrase ““have regard to”” was to focus on the particular institutions, ...
Viscount Bledisloe | 688 c142 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, about the different duty that rests on the Lor...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 688 c130-1 (Link to this contribution) I intrude in the debate a little tardily but feel it is important to indicate to the noble Lord, Lor...
Lord Kingsland | 688 c130 (Link to this contribution) I did not have the privilege of featuring in debate on the then Compensation Bill. I was unaware, th...

Subjects

Access
Codes of practice
Consumers
Accountability
Competition
Legal profession
Government departments
Protection
Membership
Public appointments
Public interest
Regulation
Legal Services Board

Legislation

Legal Services Bill (HL) 2006-07

Link

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