UK Parliament / Open data

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 10 October 2006, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Reid of Cardowan. The answering member was Dominic Grieve.
Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill. Second reading debate. Agreed to on question. Programme motion on proceedings in Committee, on Report, Third reading and any other proceedings agreed to on division (278 to 48). Carry-over motion that proceedings on the Bill shall be resumed in the next Session if not completed during the present Session. Agreed to on division (292 to 26).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

450 c191-272, (corrigendum) 564;450 c191-272 

Session

2005-06

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Second reading

Procedure

Programme motions
Carry-over motions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 220-EN also published.
Thursday, 20 July 2006
Bills
House of Commons
Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill
Wednesday, 18 July 2007
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Commons
Draft Corporate Manslaughter Bill. Government reply to the Home Affairs Select Committee and Work and Pensions Select Committee first joint report session 2005-06 (HC 540).
Wednesday, 8 March 2006
Command papers
House of Commons
Legislative scrutiny : Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee twenty seventh report with proceedings and appendices.
Monday, 9 October 2006
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons

Show all related items (5)

Proceeding contributions

David Clelland | 450 c192 (Link to this contribution) Is the Home Secretary aware that in Saltwell park in my constituency there is a memorial to those wh...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c192 (Link to this contribution) I can assure my hon. Friend that I am aware that, irrespective of our agreement on general objective...

Show all contributions (139)
Tony Lloyd | 450 c191 (Link to this contribution) I would like to associate everyone with those remarks. One important fact about Maurice de Rohan tha...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c191 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. He spoke for many in the House who knew Maurice de Roha...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c191 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. The Government are committed to a properly ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c194 (Link to this contribution) Basically, since we are considering a corporate offence, imprisonment will not be an option because ...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c193 (Link to this contribution) Now is perhaps an opportunity to raise an issue that I had intended to mention later. How does the H...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c194 (Link to this contribution) If I may make a little progress, I promise to give way to the hon. Lady later. Companies and other ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c193 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend points out, a great range of people have an interest in the objective that we shar...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 450 c193 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I simply wished to ask whether my right hon. Friend and his c...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c193 (Link to this contribution) The extent of the fines should have some effect. The fines provision is for unlimited fines, which i...
Simon Hughes | 450 c193 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary knows that many colleagues have waited a long time for such a measure. I was one ...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 450 c192 (Link to this contribution) Several of the families who believe that criminal prosecutions should have been brought in the cases...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c195 (Link to this contribution) It will, of course, be possible to look at all such matters, including that one, during the House’s ...
Helen Jones | 450 c195 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is right to argue that all people deserve the protection of the law in this mat...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c195 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way first to my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington, North (Helen Jones) and then to ...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c195 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way?
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c195 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that that is correct. People can already be held to account for gross negligence that...
Baroness Burt of Solihull | 450 c194 (Link to this contribution) On punishment and fines, will he explain why directors can be disqualified for gross breach of duty ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c194 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way first to the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt).
Michael Clapham | 450 c200 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) referred to prohibition orders under the Health and Sa...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c200-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head. That is precisely the point that I was trying to make. ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c200 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone (Mr. Clapham), but the...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c199-200 (Link to this contribution) I cannot assure the hon. Gentleman that the test will be got rid of. However, in the spirit of compr...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c202 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Member for Buckingham (John Bercow).
John Bercow | 450 c202 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way. Stopping slightly short of the point advanc...
Rob Marris | 450 c201 (Link to this contribution) In passing, I declare an interest as a member of the Transport and General Workers Union whose const...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c201-2 (Link to this contribution) May I respond fraternally to my hon. Friend and fellow member of the Transport and General Workers U...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c203-4 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that I gave way to my hon. Friend. In the midst of the questions that are being asked, it ...
Gwyn Prosser | 450 c204 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary has made a number of references to the sinking of the Herald of Free Enterprise. ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c204 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that that would happen under this proposed legislation. That is why it is an improvem...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c205 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Home Secretary for giving way. Can I raise a point about public authorities? The Home Se...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c202 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising this issue, and I am obviously not getting the point...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) If I may, I shall make a little progress and then come back to my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley...
Jim Sheridan | 450 c203 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way, and at this stage it might be appropriate to remind our...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c205 (Link to this contribution) I am not able to give legal advice to the hon. Gentleman off the top of my head, but I shall risk ad...
John Bercow | 450 c205 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c206 (Link to this contribution) I have been very generous to Members, and I think that if I were to start on a second round of givin...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c196 (Link to this contribution) I should like to make a little progress. I have been speaking for 19 minutes but I have reached only...
Stewart Hosie | 450 c196 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way?
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c195 (Link to this contribution) I am talking about the Bill before the House today. I hope that that helps the hon. Gentleman to cal...
Martin Salter | 450 c197 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary will be aware that, in October 1999, 31 people died in the horrific Paddington tr...
David Howarth | 450 c197 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way?
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c197 (Link to this contribution) I agree very much with what my hon. Friend says, and two provisions would be particularly relevant t...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c197-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way on this point, because the clause on remedial ord...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c198 (Link to this contribution) We certainly believe that we are supplementing and adding to the measures that the hon. Gentleman me...
Stewart Hosie | 450 c198 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary will be aware that, as a result of a Sewel motion, the Bill covers Scotland, and ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c198 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will know the history. An expert group was set up in Scotland, and the Scottish E...
Michael Clapham | 450 c198 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c198 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I will, but there are two Members on the Liberal Front Bench, and I like to hear both points of...
David Howarth | 450 c199 (Link to this contribution) Yes, all three. May I return the Home Secretary to the question of the test for liability and ask hi...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c199 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not think so. We have retained the duty of care because it is already extant in law and bec...
Ed Davey | 450 c225-6 (Link to this contribution) I made it clear in my opening remarks that we will support the Bill, for which we have waited many y...
Mark Tami | 450 c225 (Link to this contribution) I remain unsure, on the basis of what the hon. Gentleman says, whether the Liberal Democrats are sup...
Ed Davey | 450 c225 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman is right, but what he said should not lead us to allow the provision ...
Lord Garnier | 450 c225 (Link to this contribution) Do not those remarks underline the need for a robust and independent prisons inspector? The Governme...
Ed Davey | 450 c223-5 (Link to this contribution) I may have been corrected immediately but I guess that the Government have rejected the most serious...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 450 c223 (Link to this contribution) I may not have time to answer the hon. Gentleman at the end of the debate, but the report made 57 re...
Ed Davey | 450 c221-3 (Link to this contribution) Home Office Ministers will be pleased to know that, unlike the hon. Members for Beaconsfield (Mr. Gr...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c220-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. He also made an important point about the possibility t...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c219-20 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and the report touched on the issue. It is interesting to note t...
Stewart Hosie | 450 c227 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that this issue was deemed a reserved matter. Did not the Liberal Democrats ...
Ed Davey | 450 c227 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is aware of this point. Most people interested in the issue were o...
Ed Davey | 450 c227 (Link to this contribution) It was the recommendation of the lawyers on both sides, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not su...
Ed Davey | 450 c226 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right and I was about to touch on that point. Because he has made it so well, ther...
Ed Davey | 450 c227 (Link to this contribution) I hope that if Professor Macrory produces some proposals with which the Government agree, we will se...
Robert Smith | 450 c226 (Link to this contribution) Surely all the criticisms are directed to further improving the Bill, so supporting Second Reading t...
Ed Davey | 450 c226 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Our fourth concern is with how the Bill is constructed, particularly with ...
David Howarth | 450 c226 (Link to this contribution) Before my hon. Friend leaves this subject, I hope that he will return to the case of Regina v. Wacke...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c210-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. I doubt that it is possible to try all those charges togeth...
Peter Bottomley | 450 c208-9 (Link to this contribution) In Committee, my hon. Friend may want to give further consideration to his point about whether a fai...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c208 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may well be right. We can consider the matter in Committee, and if that phrasing ...
Rob Marris | 450 c208 (Link to this contribution) Now that the hon. Gentleman has finished that section on the health service, may I take him back to ...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c206-8 (Link to this contribution) May I first declare a personal interest, over and above being a member of the Bar? Health and safety...
James Clappison | 450 c210 (Link to this contribution) May I ask my hon. Friend to bring his experience to bear on a matter that strikes me as relevant? I ...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c209-10 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Home Secretary; that is indeed reassuring. I raised the question because it tro...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c209 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to intervene in a disquisition between three such learned and honourable Gentlemen. If I ...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c209 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely. I was going to make that point when discussing the current operation of the Health...
Joan Humble | 450 c219 (Link to this contribution) Have my hon. Friend and his Committee had an opportunity to consider the Bill’s impact on the armed ...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c212-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point, which ties in with the respective roles of the Health ...
Jeremy Wright | 450 c212 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to my hon. Friend if he is about to come on to this subject, but he will note that, unde...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c213-4 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but the other way of looking at it is that under the 1974 Act someone who does not comply with ...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c214-6 (Link to this contribution) I am not certain that I agree. The difficulty is that if a large corporation such as a Tesco or a Sa...
Michael Clapham | 450 c214 (Link to this contribution) In 2004, when there were just over 200 fatalities in industry—this past year, the figure is similar ...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c216-8 (Link to this contribution) Before I came to the House, I was a personal injury lawyer. Indeed, I suppose that I still am, altho...
Speaker | 450 c216 (Link to this contribution) Order. Many Members wish to contribute to the debate, so I must ask them to exercise self-discipline...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I agree. There are two points to make. First, if an improvement or prohibition no...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 450 c227-8 (Link to this contribution) Scottish law has different penalties for such matters. As my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary cl...
Jim Hood | 450 c228-9 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr. Davey), I am not a lawyer, but I have to say tha...
Ed Davey | 450 c228 (Link to this contribution) As I understood it, the Minister’s point relates to criminal law, so I hope that he will be able to ...
Lord Garnier | 450 c231 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt my hon. Friend, but the Bill extends the criminal law. By and large, compani...
James Duddridge | 450 c229-31 (Link to this contribution) It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton, East (Mr. Hood), who made a mov...
Tony Lloyd | 450 c232-3 (Link to this contribution) I begin by saying that I disagree fundamentally with the final comments of the hon. Member for Rochf...
Lord Garnier | 450 c233 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for letting me intervene, because although it is not for me...
Jeremy Wright | 450 c235-7 (Link to this contribution) I start by agreeing with a sentiment that has been expressed by Members on both sides of the House d...
Russell Brown | 450 c239 (Link to this contribution) I see that my hon. Friend is reaching the end of his contribution and I do not disagree with anythin...
Ian Stewart | 450 c237-9 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased to speak in this debate, because health and safety at work is a matter in which I ...
James Brokenshire | 450 c241-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point that, in many respects, cuts to the heart of the argum...
Ian Stewart | 450 c241 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman articulates this complex issue well, but does he agree that, if it is possible in...
James Brokenshire | 450 c240-1 (Link to this contribution) I endorse the comments of the hon. Member for Eccles (Ian Stewart) about the reasoned debate that we...
Ian Stewart | 450 c239-40 (Link to this contribution) I agree wholeheartedly. The key is in the quote from Sir Digby Jones. The issue is about raising the...
Terry Rooney | 450 c244-5 (Link to this contribution) That is probably the only thing that I will get all night. Like many others who have spoken in this...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 450 c244 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my colleague and fellow MP for Bradford for giving way. I am happy to make sur...
Terry Rooney | 450 c243-4 (Link to this contribution) I join in the general welcome for the Bill’s publication, despite the fact that it has shortcomings....
Speaker | 450 c243 (Link to this contribution) Order. As a guide to the House, we have about 70 minutes before the wind-ups and 10 hon. Members are...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c245 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the point that the hon. Gentleman is making, but there have been prosecutions—not for c...
Stewart Hosie | 450 c246-8 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrat spokesman, the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr. Davey), mentioned Sco...
Terry Rooney | 450 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to make two points. First, there would have been no convictions for corporate manslaught...
Philip Dunne | 450 c254-5 (Link to this contribution) I am conscious of the time, so I shall confine my remarks to issues that have not been raised in the...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 450 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to put on record my support for the Bill, so far as it goes. As we...
Michael Clapham | 450 c255 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has already heard from various contributions that only a small minority of corpor...
Stewart Hosie | 450 c248 (Link to this contribution) I certainly do. Whether or not the law is passed, either as it is or amended, we will have to revisi...
Ann McKechin | 450 c248 (Link to this contribution) Earlier today, the Home Secretary stated that individual directors could still be prosecuted under t...
James Clappison | 450 c251-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Eccles (Ian Stewart) said that this was not nanny state legislation. I agreed wi...
Frank Doran | 450 c248-51 (Link to this contribution) This Bill has been a long time coming, as many of my hon. Friends and other Members have said. I am ...
Ann McKechin | 450 c256-8 (Link to this contribution) Like several of my hon. Friends, I welcome the Bill. I also agree with some of the comments that hav...
Philip Dunne | 450 c255-6 (Link to this contribution) No, I am afraid that my time is very limited. The Bill needs to be improved in four areas. We have ...
Ian Stewart | 450 c255 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Philip Dunne | 450 c255 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but we already have the legislative framework that allows us to...
David Anderson | 450 c264 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Bill and I am very proud to be associated with it, but surely the real meaning behind ...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 450 c263-4 (Link to this contribution) Nobody in this Chamber could be more proud than I am to wind up this debate on corporate manslaughte...
Lord Garnier | 450 c261-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Blackpool, North and Fleetwood (Mrs. Humble) was the 20th contributor to the deb...
Joan Humble | 450 c259-61 (Link to this contribution) It is with great pleasure that I welcome the Bill as the fulfilment of a manifesto pledge and an ind...
Michael Clapham | 450 c259 (Link to this contribution) In the few minutes available to me, I want to concentrate on just two issues—the need to act to redu...
Mike Penning | 450 c258-9 (Link to this contribution) Like many other hon. Members, I support the Bill. It goes a long way towards tackling the many anoma...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c196-7 (Link to this contribution) In a second. As the intention is to target truly corporate negligence, however, it would be wrong i...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 450 c226-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions Professor Macrory and his review of the duties of directors, which is li...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 450 c197 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Reading, West (Martin Salter) and then to the hon. ...
Dominic Grieve | 450 c220 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that another possible consequence of the Bill is that it will depress ...
Andrew Dismore | 450 c211 (Link to this contribution) I wish to raise two issues. First, Crown immunity still applies under the Health and Safety at Work,...
Rob Marris | 450 c213 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his generosity in giving way. I cannot remember, but my reco...
James Duddridge | 450 c231-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. and learned Friend for that. I turn now to the fines. The Select Committee suggeste...
Speaker | 450 c193 (Link to this contribution) Order. It is not normal practice to refer to people outside the Chamber when addressing the House.
Ed Davey | 450 c199 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the Home Secretary can write to my hon. Friend to clarify that because we believe that t...
Tony Lloyd | 450 c233-5 (Link to this contribution) I listened with care to the hon. Gentleman, but I ask him, too, to reflect. Although I understand th...
Gerry Sutcliffe | 450 c264-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention. It is clear that there are issues that we need...

Notes

Daily part printing error - Amendment to division list at 450 c268, insert Plaskitt, Mr James under Ayes.

Subjects

Accountability
Armed forces
Death
Companies
Directors
Crown immunity
Corporate manslaughter
Disqualification
Liability
Homicide
Health and safety
Health and Safety Executive
Fines
Exemptions
Foreign companies
Police
Prosecutions
Management
Negligence
Scotland
Prohibition notices

Legislation

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill 2005-06 to 2006-07
Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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