Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill. Lords Committee stage fourth day. Clauses 14-40 agreed to. Schedules 2-4 agreed to, schedule 2 as amended. New clause considered. (Part 2 of 2)
Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
and
Debate on bills on Wednesday, 8 February 2006,
in the House of Lords.
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
678 c719-66Session
2005-06Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords chamberRelated items
Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes HL Bill 23-EN also published.
Wednesday, 12 October 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Wednesday, 12 October 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill
Wednesday, 8 February 2006
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords
Wednesday, 8 February 2006
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Byford | 678 c737 (Link to this contribution)
had given notice of her intention to move Amendment No. 261:"Page 9, line 21, after ““may”” insert “...
Baroness Byford | 678 c739-40 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Carter, for his comments. The website will make a difference. ...
Show all contributions (73)
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 678 c739 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my noble friend Lord Carter. I say to the noble Baroness that we do not wish to create an di...
Lord Carter | 678 c739 (Link to this contribution)
A technical matter will be of interest to the Committee in this regard. The noble Baroness referred ...
Baroness Byford | 678 c738-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 263:"Page 10, line 27, leave out paragraph (d)."
The noble Baroness said: With ...
Baroness Byford | 678 c738 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful to the Minister for offering to write to me. This is a slightly technical area. I...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 678 c738 (Link to this contribution)
Schedule 3 allows the Secretary of State to make transfer schemes to provide for the transfer of pro...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c738 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness, Lady Byford, raised an interesting point.
Baroness Byford | 678 c737 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 262:"Page 51, line 33, leave out paragraph 2."
The noble Baroness said: We are ...
Baroness Byford | 678 c740 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 266:"Page 54, line 17, at end insert—"
““( ) One member shall be appointed...
Baroness Byford | 678 c741 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister. I was having a chuckle to myself, because I was going back to the RCC...
Lord Bach | 678 c740-1 (Link to this contribution)
This amendment relates to the appointment of members to the joint committee and is designed to impos...
Lord Carter | 678 c743 (Link to this contribution)
No, a former audit clerk actually.
Baroness Byford | 678 c743 (Link to this contribution)
There is nothing like the usefulness of an ex-Chief Whip.
Baroness Byford | 678 c743 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister. I assure her and other noble Lords that I will not mention pensions a...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 678 c742 (Link to this contribution)
This provision enables payments and allowances, including pensions, to be made to persons appointed ...
Baroness Byford | 678 c741 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 267:"Page 54, line 32, leave out ““pensions,””"
The noble Baroness said: I hesi...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 678 c743 (Link to this contribution)
I place on record my gratitude to my noble friend.
Lord Carter | 678 c742-3 (Link to this contribution)
I shall make a point for when my noble friend writes to us all. We have used ““pensions”” interchang...
Baroness Byford | 678 c751 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 276:"Page 13, line 12, after ““may”” insert ““, by order made by statutory instr...
Lord Bach | 678 c749-50 (Link to this contribution)
I shall try to explain. It is important to understand the primary role of the JNCC. As the noble Bar...
Baroness Byford | 678 c750 (Link to this contribution)
I am very disappointed with that response. I thank the noble Lords, Lord Cameron and Lord Carter, fo...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 678 c749 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, think that the sustainable development clause for the JNCC needs strengthening. I do not rea...
Lord Carter | 678 c749 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, am puzzled by the use of the word ““desirability””, because the unspoken two words after it ...
Viscount Ullswater | 678 c749 (Link to this contribution)
I must advise the Committee that, if this amendment is agreed to, I shall be unable to call Amendmen...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c749 (Link to this contribution)
We referred in passing to Amendment No. 275 when discussing the general purposes of Natural England....
Baroness Byford | 678 c747-8 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister’s last response has made my resolve even firmer. This is a slightly unsatisfactory posi...
Baroness Byford | 678 c748-9 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 274:"Page 11, line 25, leave out ““the desirability of contributing”” and insert...
Lord Bach | 678 c747 (Link to this contribution)
That is a very fair point. The real point behind what I had to say was that the four bodies that mak...
Lord Bach | 678 c747 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the point that the noble Earl makes.
Baroness Byford | 678 c745 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 272:"Page 11, line 20, after ““conversation,”” insert—"
““( ) increasing b...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c745-6 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment No. 272 refers to ““conversation””, which is slightly confusing and why we are all falling...
Lord Bach | 678 c746-7 (Link to this contribution)
I have to admit that initially we found that Amendment No. 272 had some merits, but on further refle...
Earl Peel | 678 c747 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that the noble Lord would agree with me that there is another dimension to this. Whereas t...
Baroness Byford | 678 c743 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 268:"Page 55, line 2, leave out ““, with the approval of the Secretary of State,...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 678 c743-4 (Link to this contribution)
It is very important that the JNCC should have its own employees and budget. That was stated in a re...
Lord Bach | 678 c744 (Link to this contribution)
I shall deal with both Amendments Nos. 268 and 270. There is a historical background to Amendment No...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c755-6 (Link to this contribution)
I rise to support the noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, with great pleasure. I am happy ...
Earl Peel | 678 c756-7 (Link to this contribution)
I say a few words in support of my noble friend’s amendment. When he moved it he made reference to a...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 678 c757 (Link to this contribution)
I refer to paragraph (b) in Amendment No. 279, to which my noble friend Lady Miller spoke, and the c...
Baroness Byford | 678 c757-8 (Link to this contribution)
I support and thank my noble friend Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville for tabling this very important...
Lord Carter | 678 c752 (Link to this contribution)
I do not know whether the noble Baroness has looked at the report of the Delegated Powers and Regula...
Baroness Byford | 678 c752 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for her response. I rather assumed—although I may be assuming wrongly ...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 678 c752-5 (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 277:"Page 14, line 5, leave out from ““functions,”” to end of line 7 and insert ...
Viscount Ullswater | 678 c755 (Link to this contribution)
I advise the Committee that if this amendment is agreed to, I would be unable to call Amendment No. ...
Lord Bach | 678 c761-2 (Link to this contribution)
How normal would that process be, if this amendment was carried and there was a legal requirement to...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 678 c761 (Link to this contribution)
I cannot resist this. The noble Baroness, Lady Farrington, referred to our mutual local government e...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c761 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise for interrupting the Minister at this time of night. He has been good about giving us ex...
Lord Bach | 678 c759-61 (Link to this contribution)
It is late at night to be having such a passionate argument, but this is an important issue and I am...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 678 c759 (Link to this contribution)
For the peace of mind of the noble Lord who was just speaking, I have every intention of bringing th...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c759 (Link to this contribution)
My noble friend Lord Livsey reminds me—and I repeat it to the Committee—that, even if we were tempte...
Lord Judd | 678 c759 (Link to this contribution)
It is fighting a losing battle—that is the problem.
Baroness Byford | 678 c759 (Link to this contribution)
I shall leave my noble friend Lord Dixon-Smith to speak for himself but consistently throughout our ...
Lord Judd | 678 c758-9 (Link to this contribution)
Who can resist that trailer? I strongly endorse what the noble Baroness just said about the importan...
Earl Peel | 678 c759 (Link to this contribution)
I do not disagree with the noble Lord but I think that there are two separate issues, although I kno...
Lord Bach | 678 c764-5 (Link to this contribution)
These things must be done properly. The research councils are given a degree of independence, even i...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c764 (Link to this contribution)
I would like to clarify a matter with the Minister. In the first instance, clearly it is a decision ...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 678 c766 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move that the House do now resume.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 678 c765-6 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister made it clear that he was going to disappoint us. This is obviously not—I repeat not—th...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c762 (Link to this contribution)
I will give an example of how it would make a specific difference. When the Improvement and Developm...
Countess of Mar | 678 c762-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry to interrupt the Minister. I have listened very carefully to what has been said, and I re...
Lord Bach | 678 c762 (Link to this contribution)
We were talking about biodiversity, as I understood it, not the police force. I was giving the fire ...
Baroness Byford | 678 c762 (Link to this contribution)
It is this Government who are proposing to alter totally how local government works. For example, th...
Lord Bach | 678 c762 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful, but the whole argument about local authorities is hypothetical because we have not ye...
Lord Bach | 678 c763 (Link to this contribution)
It is possible to measure whether a public body has had regard to biodiversity from its decisions an...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 678 c763 (Link to this contribution)
We could continue this argument for a long time. If it is inappropriate, as the Minister has said, i...
Lord Bach | 678 c763 (Link to this contribution)
I understand what the noble Countess, Lady Mar, says. But my comment was that it may not be appropri...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c751-2 (Link to this contribution)
This is a small amendment but it disguises a very important point. The same point was made in Amendm...
Earl Peel | 678 c763 (Link to this contribution)
I remind the Minister that when we were addressing the general purposes of Natural England in an ear...
Baroness Byford | 678 c744-5 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister and also to the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, for his comments. Clearly, e...
Lord Bach | 678 c763-4 (Link to this contribution)
I think it is the latter, rather than the former, but I am entitled to that opinion. I am sure that ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 678 c747 (Link to this contribution)
Of course it will be for the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, to decide what to do with her Amendment No...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 678 c752 (Link to this contribution)
Powers of direction are very much reserved powers, and we hope never to have to use them. But they a...
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