Immigration Asylum and Nationality Bill. Lords Committee stage third day. Grand Committee off the floor of the House (Moses Room). Clauses 21, 22, 24 to 43 agreed to. Clauses 20 and 23 agreed to as amended.
Immigration Asylum and Nationality Bill 2005-06
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
677 c193-252GCSession
2005-06Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand CommitteeRelated items
Immigration Asylum and Nationality Bill. Brought from Commons. Explanatory note HL Bill 43-EN also published.
Thursday, 17 November 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Thursday, 17 November 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c201-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I cannot answer the noble Lord’s question on behalf of my honourable friend Mr Burnham but I will as...
Baroness Fookes | 677 c225GC (Link to this contribution)
I must suspend the Committee in light of a Division in the Chamber. It is customary to give 10 minut...
Show all contributions (112)
Lord Dholakia | 677 c227-8GC (Link to this contribution)
I lend my support to the noble Earl, Lord Listowel. Those of us who listen carefully to him during p...
Lord Hylton | 677 c222GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister for whatever further assurance she has been able to give me. However, ...
Lord Hylton | 677 c250GC (Link to this contribution)
I am very glad to hear what the Minister said about looking at certain points. Will she reflect that...
Earl of Listowel | 677 c237-9GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 66:"Before Clause 43, insert the following new clause—"
““FAILED ASYLUM SEE...
Earl of Listowel | 677 c236GC (Link to this contribution)
I return to the questions I want to put to the Minister. First, can she make it clear how the provis...
Lord Lyell | 677 c210GC (Link to this contribution)
The Minister was speaking on Amendment No. 53.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c204-5GC (Link to this contribution)
As I understand it, where the passport had been retained and someone wanted to leave voluntarily, it...
Lord Hylton | 677 c219GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for his support. He has an extraordinary fund of experience on...
Lord Avebury | 677 c217GC (Link to this contribution)
We support the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, in seeking to leave Clause 33 out of the Bill. We already re...
Lord Avebury | 677 c251GC (Link to this contribution)
Of course, it is a fac””on de parler when the Minister says that she hopes I will withdraw the amend...
Lord Avebury | 677 c203GC (Link to this contribution)
The quotation was:"““Da mihi castitatem . . . sed noli modo””."
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c202-3GC (Link to this contribution)
It might be criminal proceedings concerning somebody else. There may be circumstances where it was a...
Lord Dholakia | 677 c201GC (Link to this contribution)
I understand that for the time being, ID cards will be voluntary. The only documentation with which ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c196GC (Link to this contribution)
It is my pleasure. As the Committee knows, my view is that one should always accept what the Delegat...
Lord Dholakia | 677 c194-5GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for the explanation on the four government amendments. She rightly described Am...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 677 c231GC (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way. I have not looked up the relevant legislation; it...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c233GC (Link to this contribution)
France is the other country with which we are concerned. I have not looked into the detail of the Fr...
Earl of Sandwich | 677 c229GC (Link to this contribution)
Does that mean that we will no longer see the words ““is satisfied that”” in legislation under this ...
Earl of Listowel | 677 c224-5GC (Link to this contribution)
I rise to oppose the questions that Clauses 40 and 41 stand part of the Bill. Clause 40, as the nobl...
Earl of Sandwich | 677 c226-7GC (Link to this contribution)
We can always count on my noble friend Lord Listowel to bring us back to the reality when we are dis...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c221-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I take all our discussions away and think very carefully about them because Members of the Committee...
Lord Dholakia | 677 c246GC (Link to this contribution)
We have dealt with Amendments Nos. 66 to 68, so I now intend to speak to the Question whether Clause...
Lord Avebury | 677 c235-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I agree absolutely with the Minister that if someone is being asked to take the cover off a truck, t...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c235GC (Link to this contribution)
We have to make a differentiation here. On training in relation to children, we want to make sure th...
Lord Avebury | 677 c235GC (Link to this contribution)
I am sure the noble Baroness means what she says, but, as my noble friend has said, it may be more d...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c212-5GC (Link to this contribution)
Interpol would be covered precisely as the noble Lord has indicated and for the reasons that he has ...
Lord Avebury | 677 c209GC (Link to this contribution)
Kazakhstan, my noble friend says. Are there limits on the nature of the state in which the foreign l...
Lord Dholakia | 677 c206-7GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 53:"Page 13, line 40, leave out ““(d) or””"
The noble Lord said: There are seve...
Lord Avebury | 677 c218GC (Link to this contribution)
None! So why are we asking for these powers? If the noble Baroness has never used the powers that ex...
Lord Hylton | 677 c216-7GC (Link to this contribution)
I wish to resist this clause on the grounds that it goes far beyond the Long Title of the Bill. The ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c216GC (Link to this contribution)
I apologise, but I am not quite sure that I understand the noble Lord’s question.
Lord Dholakia | 677 c215-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that. I am still rather confused by one aspect of the previous immigration ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c251GC (Link to this contribution)
The right reverend Prelate has asked a very good question. First, I need to talk to the policy Minis...
Earl of Listowel | 677 c251GC (Link to this contribution)
I apologise for interrupting the noble Lord. As my amendment is the lead amendment in the group that...
Earl of Listowel | 677 c251-2GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord has been so active on previous amendments, it is hardly surprising that he made that ...
Lord Avebury | 677 c202GC (Link to this contribution)
Does the Minister mean criminal proceedings against somebody else? Presumably, an individual would n...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c197GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendments Nos. 50 and 51:"Page 11, line 39, leave out sub-paragraph (i) and insert—"
““(i) ...
Lord Avebury | 677 c195-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I should like to add one question to those put by my noble friend. On Amendment No. 51, I can easily...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 677 c196GC (Link to this contribution)
It is a coincidence that I am in the Committee while also being a member of the Delegated Powers and...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c197GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 49:"Page 10, line 25, leave out from ““instrument,”” to ““shall”” in line 26 and...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 677 c194GC (Link to this contribution)
I put on the record my gratitude to the Minister for tabling Amendments Nos. 48 and 49, which reflec...
Lord Dholakia | 677 c233GC (Link to this contribution)
Is the Minister satisfied that similar arrangements to our Criminal Records Bureau are in place in F...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 677 c224GC (Link to this contribution)
I have been approached to speak on this group of amendments by the Public and Commercial Services Un...
Lord Avebury | 677 c222-4GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 64A:"Page 21, line 39, leave out subsection (5)."
The noble Lord said: Clause 4...
Lord Avebury | 677 c248GC (Link to this contribution)
Does that include the ADSS, whose views would be particularly important in that regard?
Earl of Sandwich | 677 c242-3GC (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I may repeat what Jack Straw said during the debate on Part III of the Immigration and Asylu...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c236-7GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall certainly write to the noble Earl on the latter point. The system is not exactly the same, b...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c210-1GC (Link to this contribution)
I will try to recap where I got to, but I was wondering if I might address a couple of points that w...
Lord Avebury | 677 c211GC (Link to this contribution)
I can confirm everything that the noble Baroness said, but it is not the European Union that we are ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c211-2GC (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, but because noble Lords had raised the question of the EU, it was pertinent to describe how ...
Lord Avebury | 677 c212GC (Link to this contribution)
Before the Minister leaves the question of data protection, will she answer my question about Interp...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c210GC (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful to the noble Lord for indicating that. I will try to address all the concerns tha...
Lord Hylton | 677 c210GC (Link to this contribution)
I will be raising the matters that the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, has just referred to, under Clause ...
Lord Lyell | 677 c210GC (Link to this contribution)
I am advised that there is a Division in the Chamber, so the Committee will be adjourned for 10 minu...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 677 c207-9GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 55, 57, 59, 60 and 61, tabled in my name. I am grateful to the nobl...
Lord Avebury | 677 c209GC (Link to this contribution)
I think we require further elucidation on all these matters. We are grateful to the noble Baroness, ...
Lord Hylton | 677 c204GC (Link to this contribution)
In connection with the point just raised by my noble friend, can the Minister give us an assurance t...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c203-4GC (Link to this contribution)
Quite so. It made me think of the updated version—a new single by Robbie Williams, called ““Make me ...
Lord Avebury | 677 c205-6GC (Link to this contribution)
If I may take the noble Baroness’s reply in reverse order, I say first how grateful I am for her ass...
Lord Hylton | 677 c219-20GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 63:"Page 21, line 11, leave out ““any other””"
The noble Lord said: I shall spe...
Lord Hylton | 677 c221GC (Link to this contribution)
I accept that Her Majesty’s Government are bound by a number of precedents; they are guided by how t...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 677 c219GC (Link to this contribution)
Does the Irish border not apply?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c218-9GC (Link to this contribution)
The fact that the powers have not been used and the reasons why they have not been used stand separa...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 677 c219GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall not be in the least hurt if the answer to my question is extremely simple. If it is extremel...
Lord Avebury | 677 c218GC (Link to this contribution)
Can the Minister give me an answer to the question about the exercise of powers under Section 21(3) ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c218GC (Link to this contribution)
I apologise. The answer is none.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c217-8GC (Link to this contribution)
Of course, we took advice from parliamentary counsel on whether this clause is within the scope of t...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c250GC (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, and I am grateful to the noble Lord for pointing out the distinction. As I have already indi...
Bishop of Oxford | 677 c251GC (Link to this contribution)
The Minister said that she would look into the adequacy of information about the possibility of bail...
Earl of Listowel | 677 c252GC (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, that is correct. I would prefer that families were not put in a situation where they might c...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 677 c252GC (Link to this contribution)
This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Thursday at 2 pm.
Viscount Simon | 677 c252GC (Link to this contribution)
The Committee stands adjourned until Thursday at 2 pm.
Lord Avebury | 677 c197-200GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 51A:"Page 13, line 11, at beginning insert ““where a person has been given leave...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 677 c200-1GC (Link to this contribution)
I wish to ask some questions on the drafting of both the Government’s proposed sub-paragraph (5) in ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c193-4GC (Link to this contribution)
moved Amendment No. 48:"Page 10, line 24, at end insert ““and””"
The noble Baroness said: There are...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c231-3GC (Link to this contribution)
I will indeed look at that. I do not have the benefit of the length of experience of the noble Lord,...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c234GC (Link to this contribution)
I rise to interrupt only briefly. We are to finish the Committee stage on Thursday, so I am not conv...
Lord Avebury | 677 c233GC (Link to this contribution)
A distinction should be made between the Children’s Commissioner ““thinking”” that the arrangements ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c234-5GC (Link to this contribution)
There is no question that those discussions are taking place. Equally, I would not want the noble Lo...
Lord Avebury | 677 c234GC (Link to this contribution)
Of course not. We would not abdicate our responsibilities as Members of Parliament of scrutinising v...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c229-31GC (Link to this contribution)
I hesitate to suggest that one would never see those words because there may be circumstances where ...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c228-9GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to noble Lords for setting out very clearly the issues behind these amendments. I begi...
Earl of Listowel | 677 c225-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall speak to my question whether Clauses 40 and 41 should stand part of the Bill. I share the co...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 677 c228GC (Link to this contribution)
I apologise to Hansard writers. This is the first time I have switched on this microphone during my ...
Lord Hylton | 677 c228GC (Link to this contribution)
I support the last three speakers. Can the Minister assure us that criminal record checks will be in...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c248-50GC (Link to this contribution)
I can confirm that it includes the ADSS. The evaluation criteria will look at whether there is an in...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 677 c246-7GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, was absolutely right to move Amendment No. 66 at this stage. I declar...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c247-8GC (Link to this contribution)
That was a very interesting and full debate. I shall try to tackle as many of the issues as I can wi...
Bishop of Oxford | 677 c243-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I rise in support of Amendment No. 67 which would provide automatic bail hearings. The Government cl...
Earl of Listowel | 677 c245-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I wish to express my concerns in this area of detention and the detention of children. From discussi...
Lord Hylton | 677 c244-5GC (Link to this contribution)
I rise to speak to Amendment No. 68, and I am sure that the noble Baroness can be in no doubt about ...
Lord Avebury | 677 c239-42GC (Link to this contribution)
Noble Lords will remember how controversial Section 9 of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Cl...
Lord Avebury | 677 c237GC (Link to this contribution)
I was about to conclude when the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, rose to speak, and I must say that it wa...
Viscount Simon | 677 c236GC (Link to this contribution)
A Division has been called. We shall resume our proceedings in 10 minutes.
[The Sitting was suspend...
Earl of Listowel | 677 c236GC (Link to this contribution)
Before the noble Lord withdraws his amendment, perhaps I may thank the Minister for her response to ...
Lord Dholakia | 677 c209GC (Link to this contribution)
Or Kazakhstan?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 677 c209GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, is right: all of the matters need further elucidation. What I should h...
Lord Avebury | 677 c209GC (Link to this contribution)
We are not quite sure whether the Minister is in listening mode this afternoon. She certainly did we...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c204GC (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to pass on the message, but I wonder whether the noble Earl would explain a bit further. ...
Earl of Sandwich | 677 c204GC (Link to this contribution)
I listened carefully to what the Minister said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, about pa...
Lord Avebury | 677 c220GC (Link to this contribution)
It is strange that the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, picked the two states that I mentioned: Burma and Zi...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c220-1GC (Link to this contribution)
I do not think I meant to use the words, ““that we did not like””. The question that I sought to add...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c219GC (Link to this contribution)
I apologise; I also have the answer to the noble Lord’s question. The aim is to allow information ab...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c219GC (Link to this contribution)
I presume that it does, but I cannot answer that specific point. I shall write to the noble Lord to ...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 677 c217GC (Link to this contribution)
As the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, has afforded us the possibility of discussing this clause, I will be...
Lord Dholakia | 677 c216GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that. Perhaps we may have a conversation later. In the mean time, I beg lea...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c216GC (Link to this contribution)
These powers apply to the ability to ask for information about passengers and so on. It is not the s...
Lord Dholakia | 677 c216GC (Link to this contribution)
Under the powers being granted to police officers at the rank of superintendent, which also arises i...
Baroness Ashton of Upholland | 677 c252GC (Link to this contribution)
Can I confirm whether the noble Earl is saying that he would prefer a forceful removal, including de...
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