London Local Authorities Bill [Lords]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I am sure she agrees that existing legislation is sufficient to tackle the problem. My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch challenged my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green to justify the wide-ranging powers that clause 5 would give. He said that he saw a difference between takeaways, which sell products in packaging designed to be taken out of the shop and disposed of, and offices or buildings where smokers happen to congregate outside the front door to have a discussion over a cigarette. I am not entirely sure I agree. Just because a takeaway sells a burger and puts it in a wrapper for people to eat at their convenience does not mean that it should be held responsible if a customer drops the litter somewhere where they should not. I believe in individual responsibility, and the responsibility should lie with the individual who is doing the littering. That should apply equally to what happens outside a takeaway and to smoking outside an office, but my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch made that distinction. Those are the points that my hon. Friend made about amendment 15. I apologise for rushing through them, but I thought it appropriate to recap so that we can move on to new material. I agree with the thrust of the amendment. We have more legislation to deal with this even than my hon. Friend acknowledged in his brief contribution before he was cut off. Anti-littering legislation has been updated since the introduction of the Environmental Protection Act 1990, to which he referred, and which is cited in the Bill. The Bill seems to be reluctant to mention that the legislation has been updated. The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 extends the offence of littering to all open spaces, which calls into question why any further legislation, including the Bill, is necessary. Section 18 of that Act states:"““In section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990…(offence of leaving litter), for""subsections (1) to (4) substitute—""(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it.""(2) This section applies to any place in the area of a principal litter authority which is open to the air, subject to subsection (3) below.””" Presumably, that applies to all London local authorities, just as it applies anywhere else. Section 18 continues:"““This section does not apply to a place which is 'open to the air' for the purposes of this Part by virtue of section 86(13) above if the public does not have access to it, with or without payment.””" Effectively, if it is private land, that provision does not apply. Section 18 continues:"““It is immaterial for the purposes of this section whether the litter is deposited on land or in water.””" It is therefore even more comprehensive than my hon. Friends may think. It continues:"““No offence is committed under subsection (1) above where the depositing of the litter is…authorised by law; or…done by or with the consent of the owner, occupier or other person having control of the place where it is deposited.””" Given that the local authority does not authorise people to drop litter—they do so without its consent—that measure can be invoked by London local authorities if they see fit. Section 18 continues:"““A person may only give consent under subsection (4A)(b) above in relation to the depositing of litter in a lake or pond or watercourse if he is the owner, occupier or other person having control of…all the land adjoining that lake or pond or watercourse; and…all the land through or into which water in that lake or pond or watercourse directly or indirectly discharges, otherwise than by means of a public sewer.””" That provision makes it clear that the owner of the premises outside which the litter is dropped is not authorised to give consent to anyone to drop litter; they are not giving permission for them to do so. The owner of the takeaway or other shop is not saying to their customers, ““Oh, by the way, when you want to get rid of your burger wrapper or your chip paper, just drop it outside—it's not a problem.”” The law makes it clear that they cannot do that, so why on earth my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green wishes to make those people responsible for what others are doing outside on the public highway, when they already have the powers to enforce a ban if they so wish is beyond me.