Finance Bill

Yes, I accept the points that my hon. Friend makes. The point is that interest rates away from the headline rate—that is, the interbank charging rates—were in real danger of going up. I know that we on the Government Benches are derided when we mention Greece, but the thing that we must recognise about the Greek economy is that the borrowing of money and the interest rates that went up were ultimately fed back into the market because action was not taken. I listened carefully to the comments made by the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) about his amendment. Obviously, he does not want to see VAT raised at all—he wants it left at 17.5%. I was going to make an intervention, but I thought it was worth waiting to see how he expanded his point. I was not sure whether he was commenting on the impact of the Budget on the country overall or just on Scotland. He made an important point when he said that it would have an impact on the health service in Scotland to the tune of £150 million. Of course, the national insurance rise under the previous Government would have had a similar effect. I want to make a suggestion. The hon. Gentleman asked whether we could find other areas where the money could be found. The hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) also made a point about looking for other sources for the £12 billion to £13 billion involved. If the Scottish National party tabled an amendment to cut the grant to Scotland under the Barnett formula by that £12 billion to £13 billion, that amendment would have support from many Members and would avoid the need for the VAT rise. Perhaps they might want to consider that point in the later stages of this Bill's passage. It is a great disappointment to me that the hon. Member for Dundee East is not here; I am sure that he would have liked to react. We are borrowing £3 billion a week. It has also been mentioned that the VAT rise will have an impact on charities, but the national insurance rise, which we reversed, would have too. We must return to the fact that we have put together a package of changes. Saying that £8 billion will be taken away from pensioners is not a generous comment because it assumes that that £8 billion will be taken from the poorest pensioners. As has been made clear, that will not necessarily come from the poorest pensioners at all. It could come from all pensioners.