Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill [HL]

Because of the way this is being done—this is not at the Government’s insistence; I think it is at ours—we are skipping through the detail of what we need to find out. The Minister has given the broad outline of what the clauses mean but I want to get to the bones of this and the questions that I have asked on a couple of occasions. As I understand it, some of the powers of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, in terms of revenue and customs, are being handed to the Border Agency. Not only are some of the powers being dealt with in that way but presumably a number of the officials will also be transferred. As I understand it, at the moment there is no link between what a revenue official does and what a customs official does. I further understand that neither of them has any idea what an immigration official does. However, the Bill proposes that these all come together and suggests that appropriate training will take place. However, if I had expertise in revenue, how could I suddenly become an expert in customs matters and immigration matters if I was obliged to undertake all those things myself? Or, is this just a device whereby the revenue officials come into the border agency, the customs officers come into border agency and the immigration officers are already there? Do those three groups continue to carry out the duties that they would have been carrying out anyway? That is the nub of this; what will these animals look like? When you come into the country and are accosted by an official from the border agency, will you know that they carry the powers of customs, immigration and revenue all together, or will a customs officer have to call in the revenue people, if that is appropriate? We need to unpick this and I say with great respect that the Minister is not doing that. We have had a sort of Second Reading review of the clauses, but we are now into the meat. I should be grateful if he would get into the meat and perhaps we could have a discussion as to what these officials will look like, what their responsibilities will be and who will be responsible for them.