Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill

We are coming to the end of the debate and a number of Members still want to speak, so I will be as quick as I possibly can. In 1976, I was privileged to be part of an apprenticeship scheme in the steel industry as an electrical engineering apprentice and I saw thousands of people come through the industry at that time. As the hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Shona McIsaac) said, that was done through the nationalised industries, which had recognised training areas. It was a simple process; we have heard today that the proposed process might not be quite so simple. It was a City and Guilds four-year apprenticeship that was indentured—time-served, as it was called then—with three and a half years' training and six months' on-the-job experience so that when someone finished their time, they could go out and look for a job having done the job itself. That feature has been lost now. People look at training as an end in itself, but have they had the experience of delivering the service? We need to look at that carefully. We have heard big numbers for the amount of apprenticeships, but this is not just about numbers but quality. There is a huge difference between training courses and apprenticeships to gain skills. An apprenticeship—an indentured or a time-served apprenticeship—is much more than just a training course, but there are roles to be played within training courses that lead to apprenticeships. The best engineers we ever had coming through the industry, in my opinion, were those who did an apprenticeship, went to university and came back—they came back on the tools with a degree, rather than the other way around. That is very important in the mechanical and electrical fields, in carpentry and even in administration. Work-based experience is vital. There is also a huge role to be played by trade union reps. I am registered with the TUC and trade union reps have a huge role to play in encouraging people—especially adults—who have perhaps been out of education for a long time to regain the desire to be educated. Trade union reps have a huge role, as do community learning reps in the voluntary sector. There are huge opportunities and we have not even scratched the surface of them. There is lots of work to be had, too. We have heard a little about the shared apprenticeships tonight, and I urge the Government to talk to people such as those in the steel industry, which still has a very good apprenticeship scheme. They should use that experience and pass it on to small and medium-sized enterprises. They could use the industry as a training base. There is also an opportunity for local authorities that own industrial areas to join up the factories on the industrial estates and set up a training centre. It works. We have one in my constituency. I also want to touch briefly on sponsored apprenticeships. As the apprenticeship schemes wound down in the '80s and into the '90s, industry looked at how it could use sponsorship to take on extra apprentices. For instance, in my borough council, if 4,000 people paid £1 a week, that raised £4,000 and gave lots of opportunities for employment. The health service employs millions of people. Could we afford £1? I think so. I know that Mr. Speaker has assisted with apprenticeships in this place. If we gave £10 a week, which is not a lot to ask, another group of apprentices could be employed. I think that we should really consider sponsored apprenticeships. We have heard about adults coming back into training. When the steel industry shut down in my constituency, people of 35 or 40 years of age had to look for a new trade and a new skill. They could not afford to. How does someone put their life on hold to train? One huge shortage in our area is of social workers. We need social workers. We have shipped them in from Canada, Romania and all across the world. Why not provide our own? There needs to be a sponsorship scheme to do that. How can someone pay the mortgage when they are training for three years? We need to look at that carefully. We can identify the youngsters we can help. We have heard about directing them into higher education and apprenticeships, but those opportunities must be available for all. Those who can go to university to obtain certain skills will have them, but we need to encourage other young people. We have talked about schools and education, but we should not forget the governing bodies. As a governor at primary and secondary level, I know that the training of governors and their involvement in encouraging children are very important. We have not even talked about governors tonight. Finally, I want to discuss two other issues. The first is targeted apprenticeships. We have heard that the construction industry can provide a huge opportunity and we should look at where we can maximise it. There is masses of work out there, and it needs to be done. I also urge the two Secretaries of State to talk to the devolved Administrations, particularly that in Wales. There are measures in the Bill that we would certainly want, such as education beyond 16 going into training and apprenticeships. I ask the Secretaries of State to talk to the Welsh Assembly Government. Rather than going through a legislative competence order, which takes time and is administratively slow, we should do what we can in the Bill for the devolved Administrations, too.