Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill [HL]

moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Clause 1, page 1, line 9, at end insert— ““(2) In making a transfer the bank or building society should provide the reclaim fund with details of the accounts being transferred.”” The noble Lord said: My Lords, it may be helpful if I deal also with Amendments Nos. 2 and 9.There has been very widespread support for the objectives of the Bill; namely, that banks should be able to transfer the assets in dormant accounts to a reclaim authority, and that those assets could then be distributed to deserving causes while at the same time preserving the right of the owners of the assets—I prefer the term ““owners”” to ““customers of the bank””—who subsequently wish to make a claim against the bank to do so; but under the Bill to do so against the so-called reclaim authority. While there is widespread support for the objectives of the Bill, there is also widespread concern about its structure, both with regard to the way in which the assets are transferred to the so-called reclaim authority and, at the other end of the process, the way in which the proceeds are distributed. In Grand Committee in the Moses Room, I argued that it was crucial that every effort should be made to find the rightful owners of dormant accounts. I believe that is common ground throughout the House. The banks are certainly making far more effort than previously to find the owners of dormant accounts. Having had much experience of this in relation to the claims resolution tribunal for dormant accounts in Switzerland, I argued that if one really wished to find the owners there was a strong case for publishing the names of the dormant accounts, thereby enabling anyone who thought that they might relate to themselves or to a relative—particularly heirs, of course—to make a claim. It was argued against that that there were problems of banking confidentiality and we had a considerable exchange on this issue. I have made further inquiries about the situation that existed in Switzerland vis-à-vis dormant accounts and it is clear that it was closely prescribed under Swiss law to a specific period; notably, that when the depositors may have been victims of the Holocaust, although we dealt with many other accounts. None the less, there is a strong case for trying to find the owners of dormant accounts in that way. As regards Amendment No. 1, I suggest that it is crucial that the bank or building society concerned should provide the reclaim fund with the details. If the function of the reclaim fund is to deal with claims made after assets have been transferred, that seems sensible. I suggest in Amendment No. 2 that the reclaim fund rather than the banks should publish the names. Be that as it may, I think that is the right way to approach the matter. But in any case it is important that the details of the dormant bank accounts should be transferred to the reclaim fund. The situation envisaged in the Bill is very strange. If I understand correctly what the Government are proposing—no doubt the Minister will confirm whether I am right—the assets will be transferred from the banks to the reclaim fund but they will not tell the reclaim fund who the owners are. Instead, if someone subsequently wants to make a claim against the reclaim fund, an agency agreement will be set up between the banks and the reclaim fund. So although the assets have been transferred, the responsibility for any subsequent claim will still rest with the banks. They will have the data. That seems to me an extraordinarily roundabout way of doing it. The obvious thing to do is to transfer the data to the reclaim fund, and for that fund to deal with any claims. As the measure stands, the reclaim fund does not act as a reclaim fund; that function is still being performed by the banks. There is a further point about Amendment No. 9. The activities of the reclaim fund are closely circumscribed by the Bill—it can do only what is mentioned. Strangely enough—perhaps the Minister will address this point—it does not appear to be empowered to ascertain the owners of the dormant accounts. Therefore, Amendment No. 9 says that it should be able, when dealing with claims, to ascertain the owners of the dormant accounts transferred to it. Here again, it would seem that the obvious thing to do is to transfer the data to the reclaim fund rather than for them to remain, rather like the smile on the Cheshire Cat’s face after the Cheshire Cat has disappeared, with the banks. These are difficult issues. I am increasingly conscious that if a Bill is structured in a strange way it is virtually impossible for your Lordships’ House to make fundamental changes. We go into a procedure in the Moses Room, where there are no votes and amendments cannot be made. We can vote at Report stage but increasingly there is pressure not to pursue matters further at Third Reading. So the number of votes that one can have on a Bill in your Lordships’ House is very limited. Consequently, if one wants to restructure a Bill, however defective its structure, it is extremely difficult. None the less, I hope that the Government will accept these amendments, which will do something to resolve the problem of the initial transfer of funds to the reclaim fund. No doubt on later amendments we will come to issues about how the funds are distributed, but those are separate issues. I beg to move.