Local Transport Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am extraordinarily grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, for the way in which she has brought the amendment forward. I enjoyed a very robust discussion with her on this issue and she told me in no uncertain terms that she wanted to make sure that something got done. I was impressed by that and genuinely moved by her determination on this matter, as we all should be. Like everybody else in your Lordships’ House, I was fairly horrified by some of the stories which surrounded the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, asking her question on 18 December. I had hoped that we had moved on from those days and that we were now in an era in which drivers were much more responsible regarding people with disabilities and their access to taxi services. Members of your Lordships’ House who were here on that occasion will also recall that I made the point that, as the noble Lord has just said, most taxi drivers are happy and content to co-operate and want to be helpful and provide a service. However, sadly, a minority do not do taxi services any favours in their treatment of people with different measures of disability. We need a power like this. It is not hard to persuade me or others that we need to move in that direction. Like other noble Lords, I greatly regret that it has taken as long as it has to get to this point. I am not going to offer up lame excuses because that is not what the House requires. It requires to know that this issue is being dealt with in an entirely proper way. I have had some discussion with my right honourable friend Rosie Winterton on this matter. She assures me that we are very close to the point where proposals will be brought forward. She is obviously a person of great integrity on these matters and shares with me a passion to ensure that we get things right. I cannot offer a precise timetable for that—to do so would be disingenuous. We intend to make an announcement very shortly. Before we make that announcement, I want to ensure that the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, and—if he is prepared to give up some of his valuable time—the noble Lord, Lord Low, have a meeting with Rosie Winterton to have further discussion on this issue. There are some practical problems associated with this amendment so I hope it will be withdrawn today. I will go through one of the issues concerned. Even if we were minded to consider the amendment today, there are one or two practical difficulties. The duties imposed by Section 36, for instance, are linked to Section 32, covering the taxi accessibility regulations that have not been commenced. Section 32 provides for the making of regulations in which technical requirements will be set out and under which it will be mandatory for any taxis governed by the regulations to comply with such requirements—not unreasonable in themselves. We would need to ensure, however, that the Section 36 duties were quite freestanding. Furthermore, the power to make regulations under Section 32 applies only to taxis and not to private hire vehicles, so further amendments to Section 36 would be required so as to apply the duties to the drivers of private hire vehicles. The amendment does not quite work as it is, which is one of the areas of concern to Ministers. We do not want to put something in place that is not workable. While I cannot promise to bring something back at a later stage of the legislation, I can say that we are close to an announcement, prior to which perhaps the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, and the noble Lord, Lord Low, could agree to hold further discussions with my right honourable friend Rosie Winterton. We are all committed to delivering more accessible taxis and making it easier for disabled passengers to use public transport. That is a common and shared objective. The implementation of that is very important, and I know from my discussions with Rosie Winterton that there has to be a further period of consultation—not a long period, but certainly to meet the usual three-month obligation. We have to ensure that we can achieve what is set out, and we want to carry out some further work. We are reviewing the uncommenced sections, and an announcement is to be made shortly. We want to evaluate all the options. Certainly we need to have some discussions, not just with the National Association of Enforcement Officers—which, I am glad to say, shares our enthusiasm, and I welcome that—but also with the Local Government Association and others who have an interest in this matter. We want to reflect carefully on DPTAC, because it has important comments to make on these issues too. Having said that, and I make these comments in a positive light and with the intention of ensuring that we get matters right, I hope noble Lords will not press the amendment, which is defective in some respects, but will enable us to continue our beneficial discussions so that we can progress and ensure that the objective we all seek can be achieved.