Legal Services Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister and to all noble Lords who have engaged in this debate. The arguments of the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, are always beguiling. However, on this occasion, I did not find him as persuasive as I often do. He suggested that there might be a situation in which the position of the front-line regulator was reasonable but it would, nevertheless, be reasonable for the LSB to intervene. I pray in aid in response to that the remarks made by the Minister in the House of Commons—I apologise for repeating myself—who said that the LSB, "““should not be in the business of micro-managing or second-guessing approved regulators””.—[Official Report, Commons, 15/10/07; col. 655.]" If the approved regulator makes a reasonable decision, for the LSB to intervene in those circumstances would be second-guessing its decision; it can be described in no other way. In those circumstances, I think that I am entitled to test the opinion of the House. On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 15A) shall be agreed to? Their Lordships divided: Contents, 180; Not-Contents, 138. 16: Clause 64, page 35, line 45, at end insert- ““( ) to make regulations or rules providing for appeals to the High Court or another body against decisions made by the Board in its capacity as an approved regulator (including regulations or rules providing for a decision on such an appeal to be final and for orders as to payment of costs).”” 17: Clause 72, page 41, line 10, leave out subsections (1) and (2) and insert- ““(1) A body ("B") is a licensable body if a non-authorised person- (a) is a manager of B, or (b) has an interest in B. (2) A body (““B””) is also a licensable body if- (a) another body (““A””) is a manager of B, or has an interest in B, and (b) non-authorised persons are entitled to exercise, or control the exercise of, at least 10% of the voting rights in A. (2A) For the purposes of this Act, a person has an interest in a body if- (a) the person holds shares in the body, or (b) the person is entitled to exercise, or control the exercise of, voting rights in the body. (2B) A body may be licensable by virtue of both subsection (1) and subsection (2). (2C) For the purposes of this Act, a non-authorised person has an indirect interest in a licensable body if the body is licensable by virtue of subsection (2) and the non-authorised person is entitled to exercise, or control the exercise of, voting rights in A.”” 18: Page 41, line 26, at end insert ””, and references to the holding of shares, or to a shareholding, are to be construed accordingly.””