Legal Services Bill [HL]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his kind comments on the first group of amendments. I look forward to similar comments on this group. I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 4. Amendments were made in the other place that dealt with the regulatory status of trade unions. In essence, they made clear the position of unions under Clause 15(4). That clause allows the staff of organisations to provide reserved legal services in defined circumstances without the organisation having to be regulated as an entity under the Bill. Those circumstances include situations where the organisation does not provide legal services to the public. Clause 15(6) sets out that for these purposes a trade union’s membership, including people connected to a member or former member, does not count as a section of the public. The result is that the union does not have to be regulated as an entity in order for its staff to provide legal services to members. There has been considerable debate in the other place and I want to remind the House of a number of important matters to take into account in debating this group. First, reserved services provided by a union will still have to be carried out by qualified lawyers. Secondly, those lawyers will be subject to the regulatory rules of an approved regulator. If a union’s practices require lawyers to work in a way that the regulator believes is not in the best interests of its members, it will be able to change its rules, with LSB agreement, to prevent the lawyers from working there. Thirdly, this special treatment is confined to services provided by virtue of membership. Let me make it clear. If a union offers services to others, and/or offers services on a more commercial basis, it will fall outside Clause 15(6); it will need to be regulated as an entity and, because of its ownership structure, will need to be licensed as an ABS. Finally, many unions do not provide reserved services through their own staff but instead have arrangements with external firms. In those circumstances, the union’s offices may be providing non-reserved services such as advice, but the union will fall outside the exemption in Clause 15 and so no special treatment will be needed. Of course, the external firms providing the contracted services will be fully regulated. Moved, That the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 4.—(Lord Hunt of Kings Heath.)