House of Lords Bill [HL]

My Lords, it is good to follow a self-confessed ridiculous character in the modern world but one who nevertheless adds very much to our deliberations. He spoke on the generality of the principles. It is clear that the Bill does not rule out an ultimate stage. This is a staging post; some will wish to stay at that staging post and some will wish to go further, as the noble Earl has done. Having heard a number of the speeches, I am inclined to say that everything that can be said has been said, and to suggest simply that one adopts what has been said by the prevailing wind in this House, but I will add one or two comments. I was present yesterday for the Statement in the other place, and I came to various conclusions. First, reform of this Chamber is not a government priority. I suspect that the Government are very well aware of the time around 1968 and 1969 when Michael Foot and Enoch Powell were able to clog the legislative progress, and they do not want a repeat of that. Secondly, the Government will try for consensus in the party manifestos, but the murmurings that one hears, like the children of Israel in the desert, from the Conservative Party, suggest that consensus might be difficult to obtain. Equally, the Liberal Democrats have very proper concerns about the method of election; but that is for another stage. The noble Lord, Lord Steel, emphasised that Mr Straw said that he was in listening mode. I hope that the chorus of approval for the Bill from this House will convince someone who is in listening mode. The noble Lord said that the Bill does not contain proposals for comprehensive reform. It did not set out to do so, so that is a wholly true proposition. The question is: what can be achieved now? What is the current consensus? In my judgment, the Bill is pretty close to the current consensus in this House. Of the proposals, the statutory commission is much needed. One thinks of the news today about the alleged cash for honours and the way in which those who wish to raise cynicism about our political process have had a field day over the past 14 months. The statutory commission will, I hope, allow us to ensure that that is very much less likely. The idea that the hereditary Peers will wither on the vine is a very British way of doing things; rather than root and branch reform and a painful cut-off, this will happen over time. The other two main proposals appear to be very worthy. As the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, said, there will be debates about the details. As a Welshman, I was particularly concerned about the definition of diversity in Clause 5(4). I feel that we in Wales have been hard done by, and I hope that some people, including Jack Straw, might be listening on that. In essence, the Bill does not obstruct comprehensive reform. It removes much of the undergrowth that is now agreed, and it allows one to pursue the key strategic areas of debate. As I say, it is a very British way of doing things, and in my judgment it is worthy of support.