Pensions Bill

My Lords, I am sure that Amendment No. 5 is well intentioned. However, I query whether it is really necessary to have an Independent Pensions Commission when we already have under the new legislation what I imagine is the most powerful regulator that we have ever had. My concern is that Amendment No. 5 is grouped with Amendment No. 34, which takes us back to the area we dealt with to some extent when we discussed this issue in Committee. I was very concerned at the proposal in Committee that there should be a commission to look into public sector pensions. One argument was that the recent negotiations undertaken with the unions had led to what was referred to as a two-tier workforce arrangement. I objected to that very strongly. I made the point that public sector pensions arose as a result of negotiations between the appropriate negotiating bodies, including the unions; that the unions regarded their pension entitlement as deferred pay; and that there would be considerable objections if it were thought that any attempt was being made to undermine the agreements that had been negotiated, and which continue to form the basis of pension provision in the public sector. Nobody can say that our public sector employees, in London in particular, are highly paid. We have great difficulty in attracting people into the public sector in London because of the housing situation. Subsidised housing for firemen, teachers, nurses, and so on has been considered. We really have to look after our public sector workforce. If a view gets around that somehow or other the pension provision of public sector employees is not as secure as they once thought it was because a commission will be considering it, I do not think that that will be popular. I really hope that my noble friend will look at this with some care because I do not think that we want to upset the present arrangements. It would be very unwise to do so. Therefore, although I can understand that there are reasonable arguments for Amendment No. 5, I can think of none at all for the amendment grouped with it, Amendment No. 34, which of course will automatically follow if by any chance we were to accept Amendment No. 5. I ask my noble friend to consider very carefully what I have said. This is a political as well as an economic issue, and it is a very important one. I therefore hope that he will listen carefully to my plea to keep in place the arrangements we have with the unions. That means that individuals in the public sector have a contractual entitlement to what has been negotiated for them. I hope that they are not given the impression that this can be in any way less secure than it is at present.