Welfare Reform Bill

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Low, for giving us a chance to talk about these important issues and for giving the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, a chance to raise some items in an amendment that he either has not moved or has yet to move. The amendment to Schedule 4 would remove the power to terminate the existing benefit of customers migrating to ESA in particular circumstances. I understand that the thrust of this is as a probing amendment, so that the noble Lord can get the answers that he seeks to the points raised. I would like to respond to the noble Lord’s specific questions around transitional protection. As we have said, all existing customers will have their cash level of benefit protected, provided that they continue to meet the entitlement conditions to the employment and support allowance. That applies to any customer on existing incapacity benefits, whether incapacity benefit, severe disablement allowance or income support paid on the grounds of disability or incapacity, and whatever their original route on to these benefits, such as former invalidity benefit customers. The noble Lord also asked about those existing customers who could fail to satisfy the new PCA. We are obviously still reviewing and testing the new PCA. Once this has finished we will be in a better position to say what the most appropriate stage to introduce it for existing customers is. We expect that it will be at the first PCA review following migration on to ESA. The new PCA has been designed to assess whether a person has a limited capability for work, which is a condition of entitlement to ESA for all new and existing customers. People who do not satisfy the test will therefore not be entitled to ESA. We believe that this is right and proper. That is because the new PCA has been designed by medical experts to accurately assess people’s health conditions. It would be unfair for existing customers not to be subject to the same conditions of entitlement as everyone else. This amendment to Schedule 4 relates to our powers around migration of existing customers to employment and support allowance. As we have shown in the amendments already debated, we have been considering Schedule 4 very closely to ensure that we have the appropriate powers to successfully achieve our aims for the migration of existing customers over time, and as resources allow. The reason for this is that the migration of existing customers is a large and complex undertaking. Making sure that the new process is bedded down beforehand will ensure that the migration is as smooth as possible and reduce the risks around such a large project. We wish to learn from our operational experience here. Schedule 4 is designed so that we can respond effectively to changing circumstances—for example, learning from operational experience in the period of transition for existing customers following the introduction of employment and support allowance. Removing powers in Schedule 4 removes our ability to adapt to circumstances that cannot be foreseen. It would not be appropriate for us to remove this power and risk being unable to respond to changing circumstances. The noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, asked whether lone parents would be required to attend work-focused interviews as an ESA customer. The answer is yes, if they were an ESA customer. However, their caring responsibilities will be taken into account by personal advisers when they arrange interviews. They will be able to defer interviews if the deferral test is satisfied. I stress that some lone parents will continue to be able to choose whether they remain on income support. If their only route is incapacity, ESA would be the route available to them. If they wish to access income support as lone parents. they also have that choice. They can make a judgment as to the value of the benefits and the conditionality, and the support that is offered by the two streams. I reiterate that to the noble Lord, Lord Low. Not unreasonably, his questions focused on levels of benefit, but we should recognise that the new system is one which provides significant support for people which was not there before. We have to look at the balance of the package. That support seeks to enable people to move into work or closer to work, to eventually meet their aspirations as individuals. Those aspirations have been denied and neglected for too long. That is what the new system is about. You have to look at the balance of the allowances together with the support that will come with the new ESA regime. I hope that that has dealt with the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Low, but I will be happy to answer further if he feels that I have missed some points.