Serious Crime Bill [HL]

moved Amendment No. 6: 6: Clause 1, page 2, line 4, leave out ““may contain”” and insert ““must prescribe”” The noble Baroness said: My objective in tabling the amendment is to ask the Government to explain to the Committee how they expect the courts to announce in court the terms of a serious crime prevention order. Exactly how much detail is the judge expected to give? Of course, as the Minister sought to explain earlier, there is a two-limbed approach in Clause 1. It enables the High Court to make a serious crime prevention order against a person if that person has been involved in a serious crime and the test is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds for believing that the order would protect the public. We have discussed in some detail noble Lords’ concerns about the use of the civil burden of proof. Regardless of how the noble Baroness has sought to reassure the House, the fact remains that we are being asked in Clause 1 to extend the use of civil orders against those who are only alleged to be involved in crime, and to do so in a significant and serious manner. An order could be imposed on a person who has never been convicted of a criminal offence or against whom no criminal proceedings have ever been instituted. Yet, despite the serious nature of the new orders, it appears that the court could be mysteriously vague in giving information in court as to the terms of the order, whose breach could lead to a person losing their liberty. We shall see in later debates on other amendments that orders can also have a significant adverse effect on third parties—something to which noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Lucas, have already referred. Paragraph 15 of the Explanatory Notes states: "““Subsection (3) provides that the Court may impose such terms in the order, whether prohibitions, restrictions, requirements or other terms, as it considers appropriate so to protect the public by preventing, restricting or disrupting the involvement of the subject of the order in serious crime””." But Clause 1(3) merely provides: "““An order under this section may contain””." So my amendment is very much a drafting amendment, which, to use the noble Baroness’s phrase, uses a tool to make the court—I would hope—act more clearly in giving information. We say that an order ““must prescribe”” what the person must or must not do. The amendment is a device to ask the Minister to set out what information she expects the court should be giving about the behaviour expected. If it is left too vague, there is surely a danger that the order’s objective—the protection of the public—would not be achievable. Is the court expected to give its reasons why and how a particular prohibition or restriction on a person would either specifically disrupt that person’s involvement in serious crime or protect the public? Will the court have to explain why that prohibition or restriction is not a punishment but is preventive? Will the court explain what impact it expects the order to have on third parties and how it has taken that into account in determining the terms of the order? The experience of ASBOs and control orders suggests that the restrictions imposed in an order may well be drafted in an uncertain manner. Numerous cases have been brought by those subject to control orders who were unclear whether certain actions would put them in breach of their orders. Similarly, the uncertain nature of some ASBOs has been criticised in the higher courts. Clause 5 gives examples of what an order may provide; we will debate later the precise nature of those prohibitions. We see Clause 2 as the ““Open Sesame”” for a court to give what could amount to home detention over a period. The noble Baroness has already assured us that that is not the intention, but we shall need to look at the serious implications of the prohibitions and restrictions that could be imposed. It is important to hear at this stage from the Minister what kind of detail the court is expected to announce in court to give clarity, certainty and, we hope, achievability to the terms of an order if the Chamber agrees that those should go forward. I beg to move.