Pensions Bill

I am delighted that the Secretary of State took the trouble to intervene. I have no intention of finishing my speech without tackling precisely the points that he raised. However, underneath the bluster he appears to be rowing back from his earlier comments. Saying that many people with long work histories will get £2 for £1 and so on is different from his earlier comments. Then, he said that the majority of people who joined the scheme would get £2 back for every £1 invested, yet despite those remarks that is clearly not the Department’s position, which is that the large majority can expect £1 back for £1 invested. Perhaps there is a consensual way ahead and I therefore look forward to the winding-up speech of the Minister for Pensions Reform and his telling us the proportion of people in the target audience for personal accounts who will be subject to means-testing. The proportion is bound to be higher in the target audience for personal accounts than the cited 30 per cent. Is the figure 40 or 50 per cent.? There appears to be much uncertainty and I should like to know the proportion of the target audience that can expect £2 back from investing £1. That is critical. Our ability to persuade people that it is a no-brainer to save in the personal account depends heavily on the perception that for every £1 one puts in, one gets £2 back, because even without the investment return one gets the employer contribution and the taxpayer contribution. There are few other investment vehicles that can easily provide guarantees such as £2 for £1. It then becomes easy to sell personal accounts. However, if all the Secretary of State can say is that the majority will get £1 for £1, that is hopeless. Many people will be especially vulnerable to losing much of their savings. They include older people, those on housing benefit, the self-employed and those with broken work histories.