Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

I am happy to follow the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lyell, because I agree with him that the law should apply equally across the board. Thinking of our journey ahead into the ocean of the Bill, I shall return to that principle, on which I hope to have his agreement, when we come to Clause 16 and the amendment to it that I have tabled. In order to be brief, I shall not address the issue of public authorities, which is the most important of the amendments in this group—the groupings are somewhat bizarre, but that is, perhaps, the fault of some of us not objecting to them. The public authority debate is extremely important. I express no view on it at the moment, but I look forward to the Government’s case for the extraordinarily wide immunity in the Bill. I shall address a few remarks to the problem of unincorporated associations. As the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, correctly said, under some statutes unincorporated associations can be proceeded against, and the amendment that he tabled, Amendment No. 20, in which I have a particular interest, makes provision for a way of doing that. But it is not true that unincorporated associations can be proceeded against easily in the law as it is without any statutory reference. However, that is no reason for exempting unincorporated associations from the grasp of the Bill. It is a purely technical point, sometimes made by lawyers—of which I am one—but it is surely no ground for resisting liability for what the Bill deals with. It is, of course, possible to sue an unincorporated association on a representative action, but in practice there are grave difficulties with that. Although the leading case of Bradley Egg Farm v Clifford 1943—which I am sure is never far from the Minister’s slumbers—shows how one can do that in a civil action for negligence, it is absurd to leave the possibilities of succeeding against a guilty unincorporated association, of which there are many with great resources, to chance. Therefore, I strongly support the insertion of unincorporated associations into the list of bodies covered. I have one point to make about Amendment No. 20, which I hope the Government will nevertheless resist. It states in subsection (1) that an unincorporated association can be sued in a sensible way and in subsection (2) it states: "““A fine imposed on an unincorporated association or body on its conviction of such an offence shall be paid out of the funds of that association or body””." First, that raises a very difficult question because a body cannot own anything; it is unincorporated. Usually, with unincorporated bodies, persons—sometimes the chairman, the secretary or the like—hold the funds as trustees for the organisation. If that is what is meant, it should say so. Secondly, I resist subsection (2) of Amendment No. 20 on the ground that frequently unincorporated associations do not have large funds, even funds held by trustees. The case that I am thinking of was that of a body that ran a sports ground and did not have many funds. However, where that is so, there is absolutely no reason why a body that is found liable in a similar action should not pay up if a fine is imposed. The body in that case was the management committee. If the management committee has funds that are not technically held on trust for the unincorporated members of the association, which is perfectly possible, there is no reason why the body should totally escape a fine. Therefore, I would resist the terms of subsection (2) and I hope that the Government will resist them, too. However, I welcome the amendments that introduce unincorporated associations into the Bill.