Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

I hope that Ministers will take account of feelings on this issue. Amendments have been proposed this evening by two Select Committee Chairmen who are occasionally troublesome priests, but not generally so, for the Government. The amendments reflect the considered positions of entire Committees taken unanimously across party rather than any individual point of view. I hope that the Government will listen and respond. I was a Minister with responsibility for policing for nearly two years, so I was responsible for the accountability side of deaths in police custody. Since then, I am pleased to say that deaths in police custody have continued their downward trend. As a former Minister, I see no great difficulty of principle for Ministers in conceding the charge for which many have argued this evening. Real improvements were made in dealing with deaths in custody through good management in the police service. It came about through management pressure and political pressure above that and it was about training, supervision and so forth. None the less, it was still possible to meet custody sergeants who had been in the job for two years and had never been trained in the responsibilities of that role. Thus, if someone died in custody, should those officers really be held accountable for that death when no one had taught them how to do their job? One of the advantages of enacting legislation to cover deaths in custody is that it provides a focus for people who are unwilling or too slow to change in that crucial area of responsibility. I think that that would be to the good. When the Joint Committee considered the Bill, it was no coincidence that the Police Federation was in favour of including deaths in custody within the legislation. It was seen as a strength in the Police Federation’s trade union and representational role, helping it to secure the support that it wanted from senior management. I do not wish to repeat the points that have been well made by other hon. Members, but I shall stress a couple of them. In the police service and in the Prison Service custody is increasingly provided by private sector companies. The political, with a small p, difficulties of explaining why a private company operating in that sector is not subject to the legislation when all other private sector companies are subject to it will prove impossible to Ministers in the future. I want to acknowledge the work that has been done in the Prison Service. Last autumn, Baroness Scotland appeared before our Select Committee to talk about prison suicide work, and she gave a very impressive performance. None the less, everyone recognises that the culture needs to change further and faster than it has done so far in the Prison Service, and changing the law on this issue will help. None of the alternative routes of accountability supplies what the public need. As my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) said, the organisation, Inquest, has pointed out that, since 1981, no inquest that involved a verdict of unlawful killing has resulted in anyone being convicted of manslaughter or worse crimes. We must remember that, although our prisons undoubtedly contain some of the most unpleasant, dangerous and straightforwardly evil people, they also contain some of the most frail, vulnerable, weak and sick people, and we owe them the duty of care that such a change would bring. I believe that a number of things will follow if changes to these clauses are not accepted tonight. First, it is inconceivable that the coalition of interests in another place that persuaded the Government to change their mind about the independent prisons inspectorate will not send the issue back for us to look at again. However, I do not intend to press my amendments to a vote; the debate is a way of telling the Government that they need to get into discussions about how to handle the issue. Secondly, our experience is that, if the House does not put in place a proper legislative framework, the courts will make one for us. I have shared with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary some interesting discussions about the role of activist judges in the broader political environment, but we cannot criticise judges for stepping in if we leave a vacuum. The reality is that, if there is no proper procedure to investigate and prosecute in cases of corporate manslaughter when people are in custody—bit by bit, case by case—a range of human rights law will emerge without criminal convictions, but with demands for compensation payments, changes to procedure and all the rest of it, and the Home Office will find that equally embarrassing and equally uncomfortable. There is a strong feeling in the House that the Government have not got this issue right, and I hope that, between now and discussions in another place and perhaps when the Bill returns to the House, there can be further discussions about a satisfactory way to ensure that deaths in custody are properly investigated and that those who are responsible to the high level of test in the Bill are held accountable.