Police and Justice Bill

That is the attraction of Lords amendment No. 81, under which a hearing must be held. I would not be so supportive of it if I thought that it precluded the prospect of a hearing taking place in this country, in which the court could come to the view that there was a compelling case for extraditing people who faced charges to an area where a proper trial could take place, for crimes committed against our citizens or others. What is important is the process—the hearing—that the amendment allows. It saddens me that in all our discussion there has not been a single reference to the very important starting point of this debate—the treatment of Gary McKinnon, who hacked into US computers and posted a note on a website saying that the US was guilty of state terrorism. He was arrested in the UK but was not charged—if he had been charged, he would probably have got community service. He faces extradition for an offence that may be punished with a prison sentence of up to 60 years. It is absolutely right that the Lords amendment should specifically give the right to a hearing in this country, in which the test will be whether extradition is in the interests of justice. We could make heavy weather of Lords amendment No. 36. I have considered it and Labour Members have discussed it a great deal, and in the end I have decided that there is no loss or damage done by including it. It is a belt-and-braces provision that means that the agreement will come into place when it is fully signed. It does not make for identical legal systems, but it does make for a sort of reciprocity. Lords amendments Nos. 81 to 84, which give the basis on which those reciprocal arrangements will come into place, are driven by considerations of justice, not of partiality. They are driven not by the question of whether it is possible to get away with something in this country if it is committed from a base in the Cayman Islands, but by the question of whether there is a case in law, and in justice, for allowing a trial to take place. It is against that benchmark that we best defend the rights of citizens, irrespective of their wealth, and that is why we should have a forum test, in which there is a hearing, and at the centre of which is the issue of justice.