Police and Justice Bill

May I assist the hon. and learned Gentleman? I took the trouble to sit by the Chair earlier to discuss the vote; I thought that he might have done so too, given that he is leading for the Opposition. There almost certainly will be a vote on amendment No. 81 as well as amendment No. 36. That is my information. It is a great joy to be able to inform him of these things. Of course, the water in this whole extradition matter has been muddied by one recent case, which I will not name. The extradition of three people to the United States was sought. If I may say so, those representing them did a wonderful job in enlisting extra-judicial support against their extradition. I can remember newspapers never before seen in the pantheon of civil liberty that were practically singing the Marseillaise, and printing it, because of the pain that they envisaged in those three cases. One newspaper had an entire page showing the prisons in which those people were likely to be incarcerated and describing the type of regime—involving the very worst mediaeval conditions—under which they were to be held. There were pictures of the shackles into which they were to be put. Of course, when the people concerned arrived in America, the first thing they did was to appear in front of a judge, who gave them bail. Secondly, they were told that if they wanted to go home they could certainly do so, as long as they turned up for their trial. That is not unusual in this country, either. So, with a heavy heart, because I thoroughly dislike this treaty—non-reciprocity is always wrong, and the treaty should not have been negotiated—I cannot bring myself to support amendment No. 36. Amendment No. 81 is completely different. The forum provision is a completely different matter, because there could be real, serious and dangerous consequences if we allow the measure on to the statute book unamended by the Lords amendment. There is one simple perception of what will happen—not if we decide to prosecute, but if we decide not to prosecute in this country. If we are dealing with a terrorist case or a high-profile case, so much the worse. If the prosecuting authorities here make that decision, which they frequently do, and communicate it to the person they have held, saying, ““We have decided that we will not prosecute you on these charges,”” and then a fast-track procedure, without a hearing by a judge, is initiated to extradite that person to another country—particularly the United States—the social backwash is likely to be terrible. That will be particularly true if it is a Muslim or a terrorist case. We have to understand that. If a crime is tried or is said to be committed partly in this country, the judgment as to whether this country extradites to another country must be made on its merits by a tribunal. That is what amendment No. 81 would provide. I hope that enough of my colleagues will join me in the Lobby—with the Opposition—to pass this amendment, which will eradicate those problems.