Childcare Bill

We can make that clear. The provisions apply only to those in an education setting who end up on List 99. They are not intended to be any wider. The hon. Gentleman raised a constituency case to show the potential dangers of barring on the basis of cautions. He made legitimate points about the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Bill, the way in which we intend to make the new barring and vetting process work and the impact that it will have. He gave the example of a mother who intervened to save a child from being pushed around and ended up with soft information on a Criminal Records Bureau record that caused her problems in working in child care. Those issues are central to the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Bill and establishing the new barring and vetting scheme. We have given the matter considerable thought. We do not intend to provide that any caution would lead to being barred from the children’s work force. We would not have such a work force, which could deal with all the jobs and roles in it, if we cast the net too wide. Obviously, it is important to cast it in the appropriate place, however, and that is certainly our intention. It would be our intention to bar on the basis of cautions only for serious sexual or violent offences. We would not want to see people being barred from the child care work force if they had, perhaps sensibly, received a caution for a very minor matter that would not make them a risk to children. The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham is right to draw the comparison, which is sometimes age-related, between circumstances that might relate to a similar offence. He used the example of a 17-year-old and a 15-year-old having a relationship, and compared it to the case of a paedophile downloading child porn then wanting to work in the child care work force. Common sense would suggest to most hon. Members that there is a huge difference between those examples. When the hon. Gentleman sees the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Bill in all its glory, he will understand that we are dealing with precisely where the lines should be drawn in what are sometimes grey areas. However, I do not think, from what he says, that he disagrees too strongly with where we have tried to draw the line. The provisions that we are putting into this Bill try to make consistent the place at which the bar will fall between the education work force and the child care work force. We are trying to tidy up and make consistent the places where the line is drawn in that regard. I regret that we cannot give the hon. Gentleman the full details of all the relevant measures, but some of them are in another piece of legislation, which we shall consider in the not too distant future. I can assure him, however, that we have in mind the issues that he has raised in regard to proportionality. There will also be provision for appeals and for people to make representations in appropriate cases. It is perhaps regrettable that those measures are in a Bill that has yet to come before the House. I am asking hon. Members to take on trust some of those issues in relation to the Childcare Bill. I can assure them, however, that its provisions will be consistent with those of the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Bill in regard to the new barring and vetting scheme, which the House will have plenty of opportunity to consider in great detail in the not-too-distant future. Question put and agreed to. Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.