Commons Bill [HL]

My Lords, I was surprised by the noble Lord, Lord Livsey. He knows, as I do, that ““here be dragons”” in drafting legislation that states, ““In Wales, there shall be””. I shall not take a route into a wood full of Welsh dragons, because the Welsh people jealously and rightly guard their ability to make their own decisions. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, on this matter. Such an association ought to rise from below and not be imposed from above, so that people can choose the form that it takes. It is no good the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, laughing. He does not have the several years’ experience that I have had of speaking for the Government on Wales at this Dispatch Box. During that time, I learnt exactly where the ice was thin and where it was not sensible to tread. We welcome the idea of establishing federations, but as I and the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, said, they should be developed from the bottom up rather than imposed from above by statute. Such bodies will be more effective if created and managed by committed people who represent the interests of commoners. Providing in legislation that there shall be a federation of commons associations will do nothing to garner the enthusiasm and commitment that would be needed to create such a body. Indeed, the amendment might even hinder the development of an effective organisation by placing unnecessary restrictions on what it may or may not be able to do. We have already supported the formation of two federated bodies in England using funds from the England Rural Development Programme, and we are aware of the developing role of the Welsh commoners forum which represents the interests of commons associations in Wales. Those bodies play a valuable role in the provision of advice and information to commoners and the public in the regions in which they operate. They have proved effective also in communicating the concerns of commoners to government departments and agencies. I place on record our welcome for their involvement in briefing on the Bill. All the functions for a federation that are proposed in the amendment can be carried out now without waiting for legislation. For example, a federation would be able to assist commons associations in achieving their objectives by providing expert advice and best-practice guidance. A federation might also be able to provide practical advice on development of a constitution and on rule-making; for example, through providing model constitutions and model rules. This would be a valuable service that would assist any voluntary commons association which is considering taking statutory powers. A federation could also provide services for the mediation of difficult issues, perhaps providing persons to act as independent arbitrators in disputes. There is nothing to prevent the development of such a body now if the commoners felt that it would be of value. Legislation is not required. On Dartmoor, for example, many voluntary commoners associations happily coexist with the statutory Dartmoor Commoners Council. In answer to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Renton, about the difference between statutory or voluntary groups, I say that a voluntary commons association is a group of common rights holders and others who choose to join together to manage their rights on a common in a more co-operative manner. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, I say that voluntary bodies can even now apply for agri-environment funding. Many bodies in England have successfully done so. However, entering a scheme requires near-unanimous support from commoners. This legislation removes that constraint. I am sure that he will welcome that information and hope that the amendment will not be pressed.