Identity Cards Bill

I hope that I shall be able to put certain hares to rest. The noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, is for the third time absolutely right—and I concur with him—that DNA does not form part of the Bill. The Government do not want it, it is not included and no one need worry about it. I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, says about the way in which technology is going, and he may be right. I hear, too, what the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, says about the accuracy that may attach to DNA in due course. It is already very accurate indeed. All of that may be true but that issue is not a matter for this Bill and it is not in the Bill. It is not included in Clause 43. I shall explain why that is so. I understand that these amendments were primarily tabled to enable me to give the reassurance that the noble Baroness and the noble Lord seek. I shall try to answer the noble Baroness’s specific question on fingerprints. Noble Lords who saw the demonstration of the new machines in Committee Room 4 would have seen the way in which fingerprints are taken. I believe that there is either a glass or Perspex part of the machine over which one puts one’s thumbs and then one’s fingers. It is not like the previous practice of rolling one’s fingers in ink or some other substance whereby one could leave some DNA behind. However, it is right to say that in theory it is possible to obtain a DNA sample from sweat or skin particles which are left behind on a reader when a fingerprint image is taken. In practice such an image would not be so taken because you simply wipe over the top, the next fingers are put in and the reader underneath reads the data. The fingers do not actually come into contact with the material underneath. Those who had the advantage of seeing the new machinery in Committee Room 4 found that helpful. I shall try very hard to persuade the House authorities to provide another opportunity for noble Lords to see the new machinery before we discuss the matter further on Report so that everyone who is interested can try out the machines for themselves. If the machines are tried out by noble Lords in rapid succession, they will see how easy the process is. DNA is not included in Schedule 1. There is no intention of changing that. Although DNA might be extracted from a fingerprint, that would require highly sophisticated forensic techniques. Furthermore, DNA does not provide a means of immediate identification, which is why we will be using fingerprints and iris image biometrics. To put those issues finally to rest it may be useful to go through them. Amendment No. 43 specifically excludes DNA information from the description of physical characteristics in Clause 1. We have always been clear that there was no intention to record DNA. The noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, has already invited our attention to Clause 43. Biometric information is defined in Clause 43 as data from external characteristics. DNA is not an external characteristic. As such, there is no reason to rule it out expressly in the Bill. If the Government intended to take and record DNA, we would need an explicit power to take such samples. There is no power in the Bill to do so. Amendment No. 270 would exclude from the biometric information in Clause 43,"““data analysing the composition of any external characteristic””." For that to take place we would have to have a sample, but as I said, there is no power to take a sample. To reassure noble Lords, the Bill does not give the Secretary of State any power to take a sample from individuals to complete such an analysis. The powers to take biometric information are only those contained in Clause 43(1), which include the iris, face and fingerprints.