Criminal Defence Service Bill [HL]

In a significant number of cases in the magistrates’ courts the costs of defence go well beyond £500. I am glad to hear that the Minister was considering a case more forensically—although I am not sure whether that is the right word—certainly, in more detail. There must be discretion in exceptional circumstances for saying that rigid formulae would not apply. That seems to be the problem and it is one way that I would describe an override. There must at least be a discretion whereby not providing legal aid would give rise to serious hardship. In such cases, the interests of justice should require that legal aid be provided, otherwise someone would be likely to say that they could not possibly afford to pay the £500, £1,000, £1,500 or whatever, and would try to defend themselves. We all know that people who defend themselves do not do well and thus Article 6 would be breached. So, something needs to be done, whether that is by providing an interest of justice override, which I would prefer, or by giving discretion to those who decide whether legal aid should be awarded in exceptional cases. Certainly, nothing in the framework documents suggests to me that the Government have in mind the sort of measures that will ensure that Article 6 is duly met in every case. I hope this situation will have been clarified to some extent by the time that we get to Report; but unless the Minister can come up with something more satisfactory than she has been able to produce today, I expect that I will bring this back. Having said that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendments Nos. 6 to 9 not moved.]